STORMINORMAN
Member
I just bought a bunch of the Sierra V-Crown in the 125gr format for use in my 357 SIGs... Please advise: how did those 124grs standup in the water tests you mentioned?
Cheers!
Reloading 9MM Today
- Thread starter Cdog
- Start date
I just bought a bunch of the Sierra V-Crown in the 125gr format for use in my 357 SIGs... Please advise: how did those 124grs standup in the water tests you mentioned?
Cheers!
TexasViking
Member
Lot's of great posts since I was last here. This was the last, but I'll try to cover several points. First, I would not reload aluminum cases. Rob Behr, who wrote the Western Manual, told me about a test to find the amount of pressure req'd to blow out the case-head of a 9 x 19mm case and it was higher than I want to state here. Splits can and do occur, so cases do need to be examined.
STORMINORMAN, think I've figured out how to upload a pic, so from left to right are the V-Crowns at 1125, 1196 and 1255 FPS. Shot into water jugs. And I do cheat! Charles uses baggies, but I was using water jugs well before I became acquainted withhis work. The differences from his calculation are so slight from gel tests - and he does direct comparisons in both mediums - are too slight to be concerned with. And if you've followed all of the various predictors/opinions and such over the years, over 95% accuracy with over 900 tests is about as good as it gets.
TexasViking
Member
I have not tested the .355" 125 gr. V-Crown, but since it was designed for .357 SIG it may require higher velocity than the 124. Doesn't mean that it won't work at a velocity similar to what other +P loads actually chrono.
My load at 1125 FPS was for my wife who doesn't really shoot, not in some years anyway. I might as well let the cat out-of-the-bag and say that I don't use JHP defense loads below a momentum level of .650 Lb-seconds, and won't recommend one below .600 Lb-seconds. That infamous event in Miami 1986? A few years ago tnoutdoors9 chrono'd the 115 gr. SilverTip from a 4" G19 with 5 rounds averaging 1135 FPS IIRC. .5795 Lb-seconds of momentum. And since momentum includes velocity in its calculation, I've found it to be a very worthy consideration. It's a simple calc which you can then use to find muzzle energy.
Mo = BW / 225218 x V
Energy = Mo x (V /2 ) and will be exact to the energy calc using the divisor of 450436.
TexasViking
Member
New day, different post. I kinda read into some posts maybe questioning the hotrodding of the 9 x 19mm? Here's the deal. I began handloading in 1986 with 2 manuals that I most definitely still consult. Are you guys aware of the original pressure spec that SAAMI gave to the 9 x 19mm? Here's some help; it was 35,700 Copper Units of Pressure until they changed over to their PSI method that is very little different in terms of Max Average Pressure.
They decided to obfuscate and lower the pressure to 35,000 PSI and created the +P designation with an MAP of 38,500 PSI. I'd like to have a $ for every post I've ever read where the guy typing believed that SAAMI just raised pressure by 10% to create +P.
Quite the opposite actually. Former loads that tested near 35,700 CUP also test near 38,500 PSI. Do your own checking. Since the internet it seems like few actually read handloading manuals anymore. The lowered MAP from the early 1990s of 35,000 PSI is equivalent to 33,000 CUP.
And while no single autoloading cartridge is more likely associated with the term, "Ka-Boom" as the .40 S&W; SIG, Federal and SAAMI got together and decided on an MAP of 40,000 PSI for the .357 SIG.
No common autoloading cartidge has a stronger case-head than the 9 x19mm. The 9 x 23mm isn't very common these days, while it was afforded an original MAP of 50,000 PSI.
And there are methods for measuring pressure manually. Not simply looking at post firing condition of primers.
What I learned years ago from the Lyman 46th Edition is that case-head expansion up to 40,000 PSI can be directly correlated to pressure increases. There's simply not a good reason for 9mm +P+, and the truth is, the "suggested" limit of 40,000 PSI has really, only been done by post 2K ammomakers like Double-Tap, Underwoods and whenever Buffalo Bore got started. I've never handloaded the .357 SIG simply because it's bottle-necked. Knowing that its case is slightly reinforced from its parent cartridge, the .40 S&W, is enough for me to know that if I'm going to shoot a .355" JHP at 40,000 PSI, I'd prefer it to be from a 9 x 19mm case. While the reality is, and knowing something about pressure characteristics of the powders I use, I very honestly doubt that I've ever made a 9 x 19mm handload above the original pressure spec of 35,700 CUP, or 38,500 PSI for the pink elephant, AKA +P. Worse still, all that really means today is major ammo-makers hyping higher velocity that a CHRONOGRAPH will never agree with!
They decided to obfuscate and lower the pressure to 35,000 PSI and created the +P designation with an MAP of 38,500 PSI. I'd like to have a $ for every post I've ever read where the guy typing believed that SAAMI just raised pressure by 10% to create +P.
Quite the opposite actually. Former loads that tested near 35,700 CUP also test near 38,500 PSI. Do your own checking. Since the internet it seems like few actually read handloading manuals anymore. The lowered MAP from the early 1990s of 35,000 PSI is equivalent to 33,000 CUP.
And while no single autoloading cartridge is more likely associated with the term, "Ka-Boom" as the .40 S&W; SIG, Federal and SAAMI got together and decided on an MAP of 40,000 PSI for the .357 SIG.
No common autoloading cartidge has a stronger case-head than the 9 x19mm. The 9 x 23mm isn't very common these days, while it was afforded an original MAP of 50,000 PSI.
And there are methods for measuring pressure manually. Not simply looking at post firing condition of primers.
What I learned years ago from the Lyman 46th Edition is that case-head expansion up to 40,000 PSI can be directly correlated to pressure increases. There's simply not a good reason for 9mm +P+, and the truth is, the "suggested" limit of 40,000 PSI has really, only been done by post 2K ammomakers like Double-Tap, Underwoods and whenever Buffalo Bore got started. I've never handloaded the .357 SIG simply because it's bottle-necked. Knowing that its case is slightly reinforced from its parent cartridge, the .40 S&W, is enough for me to know that if I'm going to shoot a .355" JHP at 40,000 PSI, I'd prefer it to be from a 9 x 19mm case. While the reality is, and knowing something about pressure characteristics of the powders I use, I very honestly doubt that I've ever made a 9 x 19mm handload above the original pressure spec of 35,700 CUP, or 38,500 PSI for the pink elephant, AKA +P. Worse still, all that really means today is major ammo-makers hyping higher velocity that a CHRONOGRAPH will never agree with!
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