Reloading during a self defense situation

[walkinghorse]

So neither of these were CCW shoots, and neither ran out of ammo. Thanks for trying to play..

Originally Posted by WR Moore 

"...Actually, I believe I may have one. Evan Marshall got home one night and being sent to the local stop n rob for milk before he even got in the door. Once at the store he discovered he had a J frame, no extra ammo and had walked into a holdup. ..."

Guess I am confused, the quoted Evan Marshall story sounds like a typical CCW type situation that anybody could have happened to any of us? Care to clarify why this isn't a CCW situation, even if it happened to an off duty cop?

 

[RussC]

If you are concerned about mechanical failures and running out of ammo why not pack 2 guns?

Two loaded Taurus 380 TCPs weigh less than one loaded Shield with an extra magazIne.

Load up the TCPs with Lehigh ammo and you have all the firepower you need to stop an assailant with just one of the two weapons.

Russ

 

[Rastoff]

It's all about level of risk Russ. Sure, you could do the "New York reload" (carrying an extra gun), but I'd rather at least start with a gun I'm confident in. Those tiny .380Auto guns are difficult to manipulate and prone to malfunction.

My process is to first vet the gun. If it won't fire 500 rounds, of the ammo I'll be carrying, without being cleaned or altered in any way, then it's not the carry gun for me. Then, I carry a back up mag in the highly unlikely event of a malfunction. This is what I do, others may have different ideas.

 

[Ranger514]

I suppose it depends on your perception of the threat level you might encounter. Since I am no longer a LE Officer, I conceal carry what I consider the minimum: a single stack 9mm. I don't live in a high crime metro area. If If I did, I would likely carry a double stack with an extra mag for a quick reload.

 

[Acebow]

I hate to see anyone afflicted with ADD (Ammo Deficit Disorder). I get a morbid kick out of the 'My 5-shot .38/six shot .380 is enough' believers. Many times a bad guy takes multiple shots to be dissuaded--then, how many shots do you have left over for his buddy(s)?
I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles and not needed a spare tire; but when I did need it, it was never 'at my convenience'.

I strongly recommend to my CCH students that they have at least one reload for each gun they choose to carry. Odds are they'll never need the gun, much less extra ammo; but if you're gonna play the odds, why carry anyway?

I generally carry at least two spare mags for whichever gun I choose for the day--a 1911-style .45 or Springfield XD9, plus the pocket .38 (two speedloaders for that, if I'm dressed like a Bubba). Been known to carry one spare mag in a specially designed magazine holder--called a second XD.

One good instructor out there makes the point 'You gotta work out your own salvation'; he's not talking about spiritual matters. Acebow

edit to add: I second the motion that the OP join the NRA. Acebow again

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

If it ever gets to the point where I don't feel comfortable stepping out the door without multiple handguns and magazines hanging on me like Christmas tree ornaments.... I'll be carrying my AR.

 

[ClayCow]

I hate to see anyone afflicted with ADD (Ammo Deficit Disorder). I get a morbid kick out of the 'My 5-shot .38/six shot .380 is enough' believers. Many times a bad guy takes multiple shots to be dissuaded--then, how many shots do you have left over for his buddy(s)?
I've driven hundreds of thousands of miles and not needed a spare tire; but when I did need it, it was never 'at my convenience'.

I strongly recommend to my CCH students that they have at least one reload for each gun they choose to carry. Odds are they'll never need the gun, much less extra ammo; but if you're gonna play the odds, why carry anyway?

I generally carry at least two spare mags for whichever gun I choose for the day--a 1911-style .45 or Springfield XD9, plus the pocket .38 (two speedloaders for that, if I'm dressed like a Bubba). Been known to carry one spare mag in a specially designed magazine holder--called a second XD.

One good instructor out there makes the point 'You gotta work out your own salvation'; he's not talking about spiritual matters. Acebow

edit to add: I second the motion that the OP join the NRA. Acebow again

Why play the odds? Because having a gun without reloads is much better than not having a gun. Its like someone thinking 2 reloads is a requirement and asking a 1 reload guy if theyre playing the odds why carry anyways? Odds are you will never need both reloads.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Man, I would love to be one of those folks who is absolutely certain that all they need is the five rounds they have in their J-frame or the six rounds in their .380 or even the seventeen rounds they have in their Glock. My one shooting involved only two rounds fired and getting cut by the bad guy's knife. I stood there knowing I only had four rounds in my revolver and no way to reload because my other hand wasn't working and no idea if the man who attacked me and my family acted alone. I still carry revolvers at work and off duty. That is REVOLVERS, as in two, almost always, and at least two reloads which work in either gun. At work, I carry four speedloader of duty ammo and a speed strip for my second gun. Off duty, two guns and two speed strips.

With a revolver, I am more aware of my limited in-gun ammunition. It's pretty clear that without intensive training lots of folks just empty their guns in a shooting situation, including cops. That may be enough, but if it isn't you're left standing there with a short, light club in your hand and an empty gun in the other.

Y'all do what you want, but I'm carrying more than one gun and more than one reload.

 

[ClayCow]

Is a person who has a semi auto any less aware of their limited in gun ammunition?

 

[Acebow]

Is a person who has a semi auto any less aware of their limited in gun ammunition?

Seems like some are. Over time, I've talked to many who think 10 or 15 or 17 or whatever 'is plenty', and 'if I run out, well, I'm in pretty bad trouble'. Well, duh!
Lots of folks--too many, by my count--want to play the odds that they'll run into that high percentage of bad guy who will run when they first see the gun, or get shot at, or get shot and hurt. Hope they're right. I'd hate to have to bury the ones that are wrong. Acebow

 

[ClayCow]

Seems like some are. Over time, I've talked to many who think 10 or 15 or 17 or whatever 'is plenty', and 'if I run out, well, I'm in pretty bad trouble'. Well, duh!
Lots of folks--too many, by my count--want to play the odds that they'll run into that high percentage of bad guy who will run when they first see the gun, or get shot at, or get shot and hurt. Hope they're right. I'd hate to have to bury the ones that are wrong. Acebow

There are semi autos with only 6 or 7 and i am aware if their limitation. Just because you think something is inadequate doesnt make it true : / because you feel unsafe with no reloads doesnt mean everyone else should too. Im sure there are people with 2 reloads who think its gambling with odds if you carry any less than 45 rounds.(which is combat load for war)

10 to 15 to 17 is plenty jn my book. Obviously not in yours, it might be best to wear body armor and kevlar in some peoples cases too. : /

 

[Muss Muggins]

It's all about level of risk Russ. Sure, you could do the "New York reload" (carrying an extra gun), but I'd rather at least start with a gun I'm confident in. Those tiny .380Auto guns are difficult to manipulate and prone to malfunction.

My process is to first vet the gun. If it won't fire 500 rounds, of the ammo I'll be carrying, without being cleaned or altered in any way, then it's not the carry gun for me. Then, I carry a back up mag in the highly unlikely event of a malfunction. This is what I do, others may have different ideas.

If it fires the first two rounds, every time, and is then ready to fire a third, I'm good. There are no stories about 500 round, 100 round, or even 20 round personal defense shoots . . .

 

[Acebow]

'.....no stories about .....or even 20 round personal defense shoots.....'--may I add 'yet', without sounding like a smart aleck or paranoid?
According to the 'odds', IF I am ever involved in a 'typical' defense scenario, I'd be surprised [not disappointed] if I needed more than two to five rounds. Then again, I'm in the camp that believes it is entirely possible that, virtually anywhere in today's society, one or more of those practicers of the Religion of Peace, or even a non-religious nut job, could appear with friends and a AK47 [pick your evil rifle type], and I'd like to at least have a fair chance to try to hold on until the cavalry arrives. Is it likely to happen? I don't know the odds, but if it never does, and I die never having drawn any of my guns, I'll be happy; if I, or my family, die because I ran out of ammo, then I wouldn't be happy at all.

ClayCow, I ain't arguing against anybody who doesn't do it my way. I presume anybody who chooses to carry a gun for self defense is grown up enough to pick their own way. I'm just answering the OP's question about how much ammo/reloads and why. I've had the same kind of discussions about why I drive a Ford Ranger instead of a Dodge Ram or Chevy or Yugo, and why I have a 5-gallon can of gas in the back. Doesn't mean I hold anything against Dodge drivers or people who don't fill their gas tank until the gas gauge is touching 'E'--well, unless they call me at 3am to bring them my gas can..... Acebow

 

[ClayCow]

Gross dodge. I pick toyota. You forgot that in the list!

 

[WR Moore]

There are no stories about....., or even 20 round personal defense shoots . . .

Since it has now widened to personal defense shoots-unless you're applying an unstated assumption on CCW- the Lance Thomas incidents are back in play. As is the Beverly Hills Jewelry Store robbery outside Richmond, VA some years back where multiple revolvers were emptied in dealing with 2 armed robbers. Or don't store owners get to defend themselves? I expect I can find others, these come to immediate mind.

I'll admit I'm not real sure of the exact round counts of the above mentioned, but it was in excess of what you'd generally find in pocket type guns. Let's be honest, it you need the weapon, you're already on the short end of the statistics in the first place.

If you're content with your assumptions on what's "reasonable" fine and dandy. Just don't make sweeping assumptions on actual events that might challenge your world view.

 

[ModernRifle]

I carry a 1911, with one in the chamber, cocked and locked.
Each time I pull the trigger, I get a reload!

Extra mags, sure, two is good

 

[Rastoff]

I presume anybody who chooses to carry a gun for self defense is grown up enough to pick their own way.

An excellent sentence sir. I wish I had said that.

Still, the OP was asking about the need to reload in a self-defense situation. So, we responded with why we do or do not. Meh, different strokes...your sentence really caps it off well.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

Is a person who has a semi auto any less aware of their limited in gun ammunition?

I've seen it on qualification courses when shooters seem surprised that their Glock won't shoot with the slide locked back. Revolver shooters who lose count tend to immediately go to their back up instead of "tap, rack, it's really empty!"

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Man, I would love to be one of those folks who is absolutely certain that all they need is the five rounds they have in their J-frame or the six rounds in their .380.....

Yes indeed. I feel blessed to not suffer such anxieties.

I also enjoy riding motorcycles, which I figure is infinitely more likely to result in injury or death than not carrying more than one handgun around all day or reloads.

Living on the wild side in Cbattanooga... toting just one gun with a 6rd magazine and no reloads.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

And I challenge you to find an example of a CCW holder in a a critical incident who ran out of bullets before he ran out of bad guys. Like the "blood in the streets" predictions of CCW opponents, it just doesn't happen . . .

There are far more reports of alien abductions as a result of not wearing a tinfoil hat.

That said, I believe carrying reloads serve a purpose every time they are carried, just as the tinfoil hat does every time it's worn. If all it ever does is provide peace of mind to the person, then carrying multiple guns and reloads serves a purpose.