Reloading for the public

[gregintenn]

I've had several people recently ask me if I'd consider producing ammunition for them. I like reloading, and I'd gladly do it, but the thought of some accident resulting in a lawsuit scares me to death. Do any of you do this? How would I go about protecting myself from such an unfortunate event?

 

[PDL]

In this day and age when they're trying to sue the firearms manufacurers for death and injury, I sure wouldn't even think about it. No matter what you do to try to put a firewall of disclaimers between you and problems, it won't work. Anyone on either side of the firearm using your ammo that gets hurt is going to sue you regardless. You'd be better off having them buy the components and come over and use your press and dies, with you observing. Just my opinion though, since I'm only starting to reload after a 20 year break.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I've had several people recently ask me if I'd consider producing ammunition for them. I like reloading, and I'd gladly do it, but the thought of some accident resulting in a lawsuit scares me to death. Do any of you do this? How would I go about protecting myself from such an unfortunate event?

You are having the same dilema that I have had over the years. I worried about all of the things in your post.

So, no, I won't do it for anyone unless they are immediate family, and even then, I hesitate.

 

[ajpelz]

The following is educational info only, NOT any sort of legal advice!

It is a very tough situation. Product Liability law is one of the most unforgiving fields of law out there. In order to protect your assets from a judgment, you would have to create some sort of corporate entity, (IE, LLC or a corporation) and run it like a professional business. This would include filings with the state, and holding separate bank accounts, adequate insurance, paying taxes etc....

This does not eliminate liability at all, but limits it to what the "company" owns. Your personal assets would at least be protected, so long as the "corporate veil" could not be pierced....

 

[epj]

If you don't wish to offend, simply inform them that in order to manufacture ammunition for sale to the public, a ammunition manufacturers license is required. On the other hand, there is nothing to prevent you from renting out your equipment and giving lessons.

 

[valkyriekl]

If you don't wish to offend, simply inform them that in order to manufacture ammunition for sale to the public, a ammunition manufacturers license is required.

An 06 FFL is required to manufacture/reload ammo and sell it.

 

[john traveler]

Don't even think about trying to sell your reloads.

To begin with, you would be in the business of selling reloaded ammunition, and would require liability insurance, FFL, and various local permits and business licenses, IF you can get them. I am not aware of ANY insurance companies that will provide product liability insurance for a home-garage reloading setup. At the minimum, you are talking $35K-$50K annual product liability costs if your setup and equipment can pass inspection.

30-something years ago, I traded some .45 ACP ammunition to a fella that managed to shoot himself in the foot with one of my loads. The cops confiscated his pistol, and demanded to know where he got the ammunition. Luckily, he didn't know where they came from. They police kept his pistol for three months, charged him $150 "testing" fees, and he had to have an attorney write a letter to get his gun back. This was in a city where you had to produce identification and sign for ammo purchases in a sporting goods store!

The suggestion to have your friends come over and teach them to reload is a good one. You will helpt to spread the positive aspects of the shooting sports, help your friends make affordable ammunition, and get bulk component discounts as a bonus.

 

[Rule3]

Just like the anti drug campaign.

"Just say No"

All the reasons have been given. It is a no win situation for you.

 

[Titan]

I doubt that anyone could avoid liability in this situation by renting their equipment and teaching the process to a friend.

A 'friendship' will vanish in a heartbeat if the friend or member of his family think they can have big pay day at your expense because you, as an 'expert' provided the equipment and training to an underinformed victim.

Your equipment, your training....where is the insulation from liability?
.

 

[Andy Griffith]

Best thing to do is...suggest them buying the Hornady, Lyman, Speer or Lee reloading books and suggesting some equipment so they can do it themselves. If you feel that you can trust showing them your set-up at all, I see nothing with that. There are few folks that I'd trust showing my reloading set up with, or even let know that I do reload other than those at my range.

This is America...anyone can sue anyone else for anything.

A person could certainly get sued for selling used reloading equipment if the person you sold it to used it for ill or hurt themselves with it. Doesn't mean they'd win, but they could sue. Heck, I bet a feller can get sued for looking at someone the wrong way.

 

[Jellybean]

I didn't see any specific reference in the OP in regards to selling the ammunition, which does require an FFL for manufacturing ammunition and all the other hoopla that goes along with running a business.

However, if you are planning on doing this for a few friends you may want to seek real legal advice, meaning from an attorney who has knowledge in this field, and see what they have to say. You might be able to get away with as little as a waiver of liability form for them to fill out, maybe not even that much.

By the way, I'm not an attorney...either.

 

[Forester]

I didn't see any specific reference in the OP in regards to selling the ammunition, which does require an FFL for manufacturing ammunition and all the other hoopla that goes along with running a business.

However, if you are planning on doing this for a few friends you may want to seek real legal advice, meaning from an attorney who has knowledge in this field, and see what they have to say. You might be able to get away with as little as a waiver of liability form for them to fill out, maybe not even that much.

By the way, I'm not an attorney...either.

Yes, what if your buddy has asked you to reload for him? He buys the dies and components. You supply the labor.

 

[sjmjax]

All sound and valid concerns posted regarding reloading for friends and/or for sale.

Same reasons why I no longer do it. Once loaded some special low-recoil rounds for a distant relative for hunting. Did sleep well until I knew he had shot all of them.

In this legal climate, it's amazing we manufacture and sell anything at all.

 

[durco]

Manufacturing ammunition for resale requires an FFL.
Mike

 

[VonFatman]

I'm with OCD1....

"just say no"!!!!!!!!!

Bob

 

[Tell Sackett]

I guess I take a different view of what it means to be an American. (Referring to Andy's comment! )

This Saturday is the start of firearms hunting season in my state and there will be 5 or 6 rifles afield with my handloads in them. They bought the components and I put them together.

Maybe what you/we need to do is have them come to our loading area and pull the handle once then we can say we "helped them" load their ammo. Nothing wrong with that is there?

 

[Jellybean]

Forester wrote:

Yes, what if your buddy has asked you to reload for him? He buys the dies and components. You supply the labor.

Again I'm not an attorney, but I would think the person using the handloads should have some responsibility in what he is shooting out of his gun. If you buy them from a stranger you assume them to be safe and of a certain quality or they shouldn't be sold. If you approach a buddy that reloads and ask him to load for you, aren't you taking at least part of the liability on yourself? There are reloaders I know that I wouldn't have a problem shooting their ammo, and there are some I don't even want to be on the same range when it's being fired. If I ask one of the latter to load me some ammo, who's to blame?

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I knew a guy some years ago, had a good little sideline tying fishing flies and selling them. Federal wildlife officer cited him for not paying the federal excise taxes on sporting goods and he got socked with a big fine in federal court!

Same excise taxes apply to sporting arms and ammunition.

 

[jaysouth]

I can't cite any personal experience but one of the most astute gundealers/businessmen I have ever known just got whatever he needed from ATFE to begin manufacturing ammo. He sells it in his gunshop under the name "Blue Bunny".

I asked him about insurance and he said "it's not as much as you would think".

He has been selling for about a week and it seems to be going well.

Granted, he is operating out of an existing business where he has jumped through all the regulatory hoops that the local, state and fed government can throw at him. He has proper zoning and business licenses.

If you are serious, PM me and I will give you an email address.

 

[David LaPell]

I have had many people that I work with ask me about reloading for them, but I have always in the back of my mind someone coming to me with the remains of their firearm or worse, a medical bill to pay because something no matter how small went wrong. I have known people that did reload for others, but I don't think the payout would be worth the risks of getting sued.