Reloading for the public

[socal s&w]

Even if the use of your equipment is allowed, you will still have the possibility of liability simply by the fact that you are involved.

Think about it, the person that has something go awry, will have their attorney sue anything and anyone that had anything to do with producing that ammo.

It's the deep pocket theme, if the component maker won't pay, will the reloader manufacture? If they don't pay will you for the allowing the use of the equipment? Or the bolt manufacturer that you used to bolt your equipment to the bench? Every component used to produce that ammo will be liable in some way, the only thing that will stop them is when they are satisfied they have drained you or some manufacturer dry.

Pretty darn sad with this state of affairs when there are these kind of issues to worry about, but it happens every day. I would like to load some stuff for some of my friends and family, but refuse to do so because of that fear.

******* Lawyer and bleeding heart jury members have literally ruined good nature.

 

[gregintenn]

Thanks for all the comments. Looks like I was on the right track by not reloading for anyone. I wasn't really looking to make much money, I really wanted to do it as a friendly gesture as much as anything. It's a darned shame a person has to be hesitent about helping out friends.

 

[thomashoward]

An 06 FFL is required to manufacture/reload ammo and sell it.

If they supply their fired brass its ok to reload without selling. New brass you are manufacturing without a license.
I turned down someone willing to pay $1.00 per round of .44 It didn't pass the smell test. I think I was being set up
( smelled like bacon)
..then there is the liability issue

 

[gearchecker]

For heavens sake, teach him how to reload. you can both do it together. If your good, you can double your output and build a really close friendship at the same time.

 

[OKFC05]

(H4) Is a person who reloads ammunition required to be licensed as a manufacturer? [Back]

Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit. No, if the person reloads only for personal use.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a) (i) and 923(a), 27 CFR 478.41]


(H5) Must a licensed manufacturer pay excise taxes? [Back]

Yes. Licensed manufacturers incur excise tax on the sale of firearms and ammunition manufactured. See Item 17, "Federal Excise Tax" in the General Information section of this publication.

ATF Online - Firearms FAQs

Of course, the Feds NEVER arrest anyone for failure to pay required taxes, do they?

 

[Jellybean]

Yes, if the person engages in the business of selling or distributing reloads for the purpose of livelihood and profit.

So if you reload ammunition you can sell it at cost and not need a license, right?

 

[VonFatman]

I don't know why you would risk the liability exposure so that you could reload at cost.
Bob

 

[Titan]

For heavens sake, teach him how to reload. you can both do it together. If your good, you can double your output and build a really close friendship at the same time.

I think the key to successful reloading is to completely control the process to avoid errors.

Sharing the responsibility with a second person would concern me, but maybe it depends.


Although I wouldn't want to ever testify ...."Well, all I know is that if it was one of the ones I loaded it would be perfectly safe!"

 

[pownal55]

a quick story about swimming pools, like reloads. my first house had a nice 20' by 40' in ground pool. one morning i discovered some beer cans and butts around the pool, not mine. i called my lawyer to ask him what i could do to protect myself from the liability of kids using my pool in the middle of the night. his response was " fill it with dirt and throw some grass seed on it ". bottom line, don't sell your reloads!

 

[Jellybean]

VonFatman wrote:

I don't know why you would risk the liability exposure so that you could reload at cost.

Can anyone post a link to explain just exactly what the "liability exposure" is?

The link OKFC05 posted stated it is illegal to engage in the business of manufacturing ammunition without a license. The links in that link cited the federal laws applicable, and looking at the definitions in those laws was this definition. (it is the same in both.)

(21) The term "engaged in the business" means—
(A) as applied to a manufacturer of firearms, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the firearms manufactured;
(B) as applied to a manufacturer of ammunition, a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to manufacturing ammunition as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the sale or distribution of the ammunition manufactured;...

Looking at this it appears that there is no problem loading ammunition, and charging for it under certain circumstances. However it is always best to ask an attorney who is familiar with the laws, case history and precedents.

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to ask La z boy lawyers on internet forums for legal advice. But I don't even know where to start looking for laws relating to the voluntary use of non-commercial products. It appears as though the ATF doesn't care about legal, non licensed manufacturers, so who does?

 

[Rule3]

True story. At a public range i used to shoot at, one guy used to spend everyday open to close picking up brass when it was cheap and plentiful. He would then reload all calibers and sell back to the folks at the range for about half price. He did a real good job and his ammo was fine by most accounts. With the amount he was producing it was just a matter of time before some K- boom occurred and lawsuits would follow.

He lived in the city limits and had over 500 lbs of powder, who know how many primers. Major commercial reloading machines.

Well of course BATF caught wind of it and there was the knock on the door. He was of course shut down, fined and never seen from again.

This range was on a State Wildlife preserve, so then all the State big wigs came down and imposed more rules and you could only pick up your own brass, The range officers had to collect the rest and put it in locked trash bins to be sent for recycling.
The guy wrecked it for all us other reloaders. If I needed brass, I just asked folks with their bags from WalMart if i could pick up theirs and they had no problem with it.

 

[PDL]

While there was no indication from the OP that he was about to sell ammo, it was apparant that someone had to pay for the components.
I thought my first post suggesting that he teach his friends how to reload was appropriate.
It's a sad day we're in when you neighbor sues you for their kid falling off your backyard swing. Something you need to note, but why give in to that BS.
Teach your friends how to reload as that blond prisoner said - It's a good thing.

 

[Titan]

I haven't heard anyone suggest that simply 'introducing a friend to reloading' has any risk associated with it.

That's how the hobby grows.

However, the notions raised of 'renting equipment' or selling someone ammo at cost or cost+ based on materials, IMHO opens someone up to potential liability.

All anyone needs for proof, is the fact that so few vendors ship ammo into MA and like-minded states. The failure to ship here is based on fear of litigation by the state for 'consequential damages' that the law would attempt to attach to the supplier of ammo. I'm sure that with a minor Google effort, anyone could also find ample evidence of actual cases or complaints against ammo suppliers.

Go forth and grow the sport, but I strongly suggest staying out of anything that approximates the 'ammo business', including illegal sales/transfers to others without proper licenses.
.

 

[thomashoward]

I would certainly help friends or family. I have been approached by "other people" to reload for them. My Dr. wanted me to reload for him because of lack of time. One guy is a Mall Ninja who wanted mass loadings of SSI green AP tips. Another person wanted us to reload for his Varmint rifles out of sheer laziness, and then wanted to go with us on a shoot. No thanks
Some people have no desire to learn. If I knew someone with a sincere desire to learn reloading as a craft then by all means I'd be their mentor
I'm going to teach my son and daughter before I cross the River

 

[willy]

I don't reload for anyone and I wouldn't use anyone else's reloads.
If someone wants to save money on ammo let them get their own reloading outfit.
It will save them money in the long run and quite possibly save a lot of grief for both parties if there is ever a misshap .