reloading mini 12g shells?

[Racer X]

complete novice to reloading shot gun shells. Interested in the issues of reloading mini shells vs standard shells. The family will be getting a shot shell press before too long, and I need some guidance for the shorty 12s.

I have a Mossberg Cruiser Breacher, and will get the adapter for them to feed properly. I have several other pump 12s, and 2 import autoloaders, so eventually I will load full size full power for them to cycle properly.

 

[Nevada Ed]

complete novice to reloading shot gun shells. Interested in the issues of reloading mini shells vs standard shells. The family will be getting a shot shell press before too long, and I need some guidance for the shorty 12s.

I have a Mossberg Cruiser Breacher, and will get the adapter for them to feed properly. I have several other pump 12s, and 2 import autoloaders, so eventually I will load full size full power for them to cycle properly.

Why go a short hull?

Just drop down to a 7/8 oz or a 24 Gram load, that adds extra loads for you
using less pellets and powder

vs the standard 1oz or 1 1/8 oz loads.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

2" or 2 1/2" inch shells aren't that hard if you already load 2 3/4" or 3" shells.

Every length has specific wads. Possibly specific powder. Uses same Primer and shot. Crimping is the issue! A MEC 600 Jr. is probably as "High Tech" as you can use on all lengths. You will need a spacer to accommodate the different lengths. MEC sells those, but a correct length wooden block works too.

The two problems I foresee are 1) getting the correct and useful loading data and 2) getting the correct wads or other fillers. I would think that Ballistic Products will have everything you need.

One other issue is: If the mini shells have a roll crimp (instead of a folded crimp), there are a few additional tools involved. I personally avoid reloading anything requiring a roll crimp and I already own the tools!

The steps are pretty universal:
1) Size and de-prime
2) Prime
3) add powder
4a) Add wads/shot cup
4b) add shot
5) crimp

The use of "Cards" "Fiber Wads" or "Plastic Gas Seals" would all be at the same stage but could take several steps getting everything lined up, 2 3/4" and 3" are usually a one-piece plastic piece that goes in easy!

Most modern 2 3/4 wads have shock absorbing features in the design. Those were eliminated to shorten the shell length! The felt recoil for short shells of equal velocity and shot charge WILL BE GREATER!

I have not found the extra effort worth the extra magazine capacity. Most 5 shot tube mags can take 6 or 7 with just spring and follower modifications. Any 12 gauge with 8 or more rounds in a tube mag is VERY nose heavy!

I hope this helps!

Ivan

Some afterthoughts: I load for 5 pump, 2 SxS's, 2 O/U's and 1 semi auto 12 gauge. I want all my ammo to work/function is all my 12 gauge guns!

Loading Buckshot and slug rounds can be done on this equipment, but it requires a huge volume to make it affordable! I just buy those specialty shells!

When my brother and I shoot together for a Sporting Clays season, I shoot around 8000 rounds a year. He shoots about 14,000! We are considered "Small Time"! When shot went to $45-50 a 25-pound bag (from $8 a bag when I started), I went to 410 and 28-gauge to keep expenses of reloading down! (50% less powder and shot/100% as much fun!) It took a year or so, but my scores then matched my 12-gauge scores. I found that my shoulder problems went away with much less recoil! Recoil is a real problem that you don't really mind; until you do mind, then it's too late!

ITB

 

[WR Moore]

I'd suggest you buy a shotshell reloading manual before you start making plans to reload shotshells. Unlike metallic reloading where pretty much any case will do and there are scads of powder/bullet combinations, shotshell loading is VERY SPECIFIC. Which ever manual(s) you buy, also buy the Cheddite manual. Not just for the data but for the grimy details on loading shotshells that the other manuals skip.

You'll see that an xyz hull MUST use a limited number of specific wads, powders and primers to produce loads that are safe. If you don't see your wad, powders and primers in the data, don't experiment with what ya got.

Also, you'll run into interesting curve balls thrown by the manufacturers. WW AA hulls used to be the standard (and most widely available empites) for reloading 12 gauge. But, with reduced shot charges being common these days, the bean counters got to work and the old 2 3/4 inch long hull is now 2 5/8 in. (Hey, all that plastic adds up to real money when you make shot shells by multiple millions.) This makes assembling loaded rounds interesting as one tries various powder/wad combos to get a good crimp. I expect hunting ammo, especially in heavy shot loads, will still be full length.

Obviously, someone makes the stuff to produce the shorty rounds. The question is if they also market the "stuff" to the reloading public. I suspect they view the market as too limited, but they might. Will they publish load data? (shrug).

BTW, I got into shot shell reloading long ago because my new shotgun was picky about what (other than full power loads) would function it. AND, a co-worker who was giving up skeet virtually gave me 2 MEC 600s and a bag of shot for $60. Seems the budget/promotional shot shells were loaded with the bare minimum of fast burning powder to save money. Slower powders =function.

 

[scooter123]

Just to clear things up a bit loading 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge shells in a 600 jr with about a years practice can have you loading a full box in about 12 minutes. With the Mini shells you'll have to do a LOT of improvising and adding in a variety of wad types at the correct point in the process. Not ever having loaded a Mini I'll just guess what will be needed. First you'll have to insert an Over Powder Card, a rather fussy operation in a standard shell and probably still fussy in a Mini, because it must lay flat on top of hte powder and they usually are a snug fit to insure powder doesn't lead past it. Next you'll have to drop in a fiber wad of the correct thickness, not really fussy but you will have to insure it's laying flat on the over powder card. Next you drop in the shot charge. Finally if you have a roll crimp you will need an Over Shot Card and even with a star crimp that may be needed to properly support the crimp. You will be doing very well to assemble 1 single mini shell in 2-3 minutes. I will also note that the 600 Jr is designed as a SHOT SHELL press. This means that shot sizes larger than #5 in 12 gauge will tend to have bridging issues in the drop tube. Basically you'll end up spilling a lot of shot on the floor. Because that bridge will typically release due to the vibration of retracting the press. If you want to load Buck Shot you will have to place each individual pellet by hand. If you want to load Slugs you'll need a 600 Slugger press which is different than the 600 Mark V Jr.

Finally there is the matter of cost, currently with shot costing 64 dollars a bag, powder at 275 dollars for 8 lbs., and Primers at 60 dollars per 1000 it costs me 8.86 per box for a 1 ounce 12 gauge. Heck, join a shotgun club that purchases shells by the semi load and you can get 12 gauge shells for 8 dollars a box. Point is you won't save very much over simply purchasing it. As for the cost of mini shells, I expect that will be higher than the cost of loading a standard 12 gauge. Because the wad stack required will cost more than a standard plastic wad.

Note, if you load your own 410 and 28 gauge the savings are significant. Because these low volume sellers generally cost between 16 and 20 dollars a box and the reduced shot charge plus the economy of loading your own adds up to 8-10 dollars a box savings. It's why 70% of my Skeet practice is done using 410 with the balance being 28 gauge.

 

[venomballistics]

Why go a short hull?

Just drop down to a 7/8 oz or a 24 Gram load, that adds extra loads for you
using less pellets and powder

vs the standard 1oz or 1 1/8 oz loads.

capacity.
The shorter the hull, the more you can cram in the tube.

 

[scooter123]

capacity.
The shorter the hull, the more you can cram in the tube.

Yeah, a shorter shell with a pattern compromised by a less than optimum wad stack and produces more recoil and damaged shot pellets than a standard 12 gauge with a CUSHIONED wad. BTW, the cushioned wads were actually invented to protect the shot pellets, lighter felt recoil was simply a beneficial side effect.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

I build 2 inch 12ga shells and had to modify my old Pacific loader to get it to work with the shorter shell. I do it in order to gain one extra shell in my shotgun for Wild Bunch shoots. With the 6 shot kit it makes my M12s and Marlins into 7 shooters. My suggestion to you would be to learn how to build correct standard length shells first. To make mini shells would require you to severely shorten the sizer and crimper dies for one thing. Im not sure there are even wads available. Good luck.

 

[venomballistics]

Ballistic products is going to be your go to for this endeavor.
They offer manuals for exactly this as well as specialized components and tools.

Once we start to shorten the shell, space becomes more of a premium.
One must forgo the sophisticated wad columns we are accustomed to in conventional shot shell reloading.
That sacrifice of a protective cushion means more shot deformation at a given load level. pattern performance will suffer in most sporting loads.
In the case of buckshot, slugs, and perhaps some of the largest bird shot sizes, this might not be that big of an issue.
You might use brush wads, but more likely gas seals and card wads.

In the case of our presses, adapters may exist to allow these tools to fold crimp these shorter shells, though it is ill advised.
It is better to spring for a roll crimp tool for use with a drill press.
This approach helps conserve the space that would otherwise have been occupied by the folded hull of our more common star fold crimps.

We take for-granted how simple the modern wad has made shot shell reloading. You will face the full wrath of the old school. Various combinations of card and fiber to make things work will mean a shelf full of things you couldn't use right that most of us have avoided.
On the other hand ... 10 - 12 rounds in a riot gun is not without worth.

Shotshell reloading supplies, components, & accessories: Ballistic Products

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

Also check out the shotgunworld forum. Lots of smart guys over there.

 

[venomballistics]

was just reviewing some of the BP buckshot data.
It includes loads for 2" and 2 1/2" shells.
all are roll crimp. Some are formidable.
9 pellet #00 at 1420 FPS is no joke.
The catch is ... you'll need new hulls and extra tooling.
It won't be cheap.

 

[Nevada Ed]

complete novice to reloading shot gun shells. Interested in the issues of reloading mini shells vs standard shells. The family will be getting a shot shell press before too long, and I need some guidance for the shorty 12s.

I have a Mossberg Cruiser Breacher, and will get the adapter for them to feed properly. I have several other pump 12s, and 2 import autoloaders, so eventually I will load full size full power for them to cycle properly.

Is that model like the 590A1, that holds 8 , 2 3/4" shells in the magazine?

Good luck with the short 12 Ga, loads, if you go that rout.