Reloads won't fit in Ruger Security Six

[pharos]

I have an old Smith 19-3, and a Ruger Security-Six. It seems that the chambers in my 19-3 are more generous than those in my Security-Six. My 357 reloads fit perfectly in my 19-3, but many are too tight for my Security-Six. Both are resized in RCBS dies, and I use a Lyman M die for expanding the case mouths. Any suggestions?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Sorry but more information is needed since there are many reasons why a round won't fit in a cylinder. Brass length? OAL? Bullet? Bullet diameter? Anything else you have...

 

[NYlakesider]

I have an old Smith 19-3, and a Ruger Security-Six. It seems that the chambers in my 19-3 are more generous than those in my Security-Six. My 357 reloads fit perfectly in my 19-3, but many are too tight for my Security-Six. Both are resized in RCBS dies, and I use a Lyman M die for expanding the case mouths. Any suggestions?

What's the problem diameter or length causing the non fitment?

I have a (Circa 72) S.S .357. and 3 other .357 Smiths and all ammo fits all guns no problem...

The S.S. you have is it a .38 or 357?

 

[rwsmith]

The rounds that won't fit......

Where do they stop when you put them in? Do they consistently stop in the same place? Does pressing them harder make them go in farther?. Are they hard to extract when they are in as far as they will go?

 

[ArkieVol]

I had a similar problem with an occasional reloaded case from the same batch refusing to chamber. I assume, but don't know for sure, that seating a bullet sometimes causes a case to bulge ever so slightly.

I bought Lee crimp dies for each caliber and have had no problems since. Crimping is optional with either your seating die or the Lee crimp die but either way the Lee crimp die re-sizes the case again as the final step.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Reloading dies resize cases down to about 1/4" or so forward of the rim, a point on the case head area that routinely expands noticeably when the cartridge is fired. Also, repeated resizing actually displaces some brass toward the case head area, which can add to this dimensional problem.

Assuming that your S&W chambers are somewhat larger in diameter than the Ruger's, cases fired in the S&W chambers may be expanded in the case head area to a degree that the resizing die cannot reduce in sizing.

You may find that the solution is to segregate your cases, using some for the Ruger and the rest for the S&W.

 

[pharos]

Reloads won't fit in Ruger Security-Six

Both the M-19 and Security-Six are 357. I'm reloading Oregon Trail 158 gr. RNFP and SNS in the same weight and configuration.
The rounds will hang up about one quarter to one eighth inch from the base of the case in the Ruger. Almost like I'm trying to load then in a 38spl cylinder. I thought that perhaps the Ruger cylinder needed a good scrubbing after firing thousands of 38spl rounds. Did that - the cylinder is clean, but the results are the same.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[NYlakesider]

Both the M-19 and Security-Six are 357. I'm reloading Oregon Trail 158 gr. RNFP and SNS in the same weight and configuration.
The rounds will hang up about one quarter to one eighth inch from the base of the case in the Ruger. Almost like I'm trying to load then in a 38spl cylinder. I thought that perhaps the Ruger cylinder needed a good scrubbing after firing thousands of 38spl rounds. Did that - the cylinder is clean, but the results are the same.

Thanks in advance for your help.

How close to the rim is your resizing die set? If you have a mike or caliper check the O.D. of your cases all the way to the rim.

 

[MichiganScott]

I'd check the roll crimp first to be certain you aren't bulging the case around the mouth. You could be bottoming out on the cylinder shoulder. You also need to check and be sure the cases are trimmed below SAAMI max.

 

[GrayGhost99]

I would try just a sized cases first. From there a factory round fired through the ruger, reload it and see how it goes.

 

[sellersm]

I would try just a sized cases first. From there a factory round fired through the ruger, reload it and see how it goes.

^This. Follow logical steps, eliminate variables one-at-a-time. First just the factory brass fired in that Ruger, that's been resized. Then add another step: flare it, load a bullet, crimp and try that. Etc.

 

[mikld]

Whenever there is a fit issue, measure!. To troubleshoot, you'll need to know where the offending round is too big so you can find out when the round becomes too big. Or you could just use WAGs...

 

[Shooter Magaven]

....after firing thousands of 38spl rounds....

.

Thousands? In a 357?
Hmmm... may need more than a scrub

 

[rwsmith]

Yeah...

Thousands? In a 357?
Hmmm... may need more than a scrub

Yeah, make sure the step in the chamber is clean, not just the chambers. That will stop an inserted cartridge almost 1/8" from from bottoming out because the .357 case is that much longer than the .38.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Both the M-19 and Security-Six are 357. I'm reloading Oregon Trail 158 gr. RNFP and SNS in the same weight and configuration.
The rounds will hang up about one quarter to one eighth inch from the base of the case in the Ruger. Almost like I'm trying to load then in a 38spl cylinder. I thought that perhaps the Ruger cylinder needed a good scrubbing after firing thousands of 38spl rounds. Did that - the cylinder is clean, but the results are the same.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Please review my earlier post. The conditions you are describing are completely consistent with the diagnosis offered earlier.

If this were related to case mouth expansion, or swelling of the case mouth as a bullet was seated, then the obstruction would occur at that point. This is not the case. Your reloaded ammunition is hanging up at the case head area where the resizing die does not reduce case diameter, and the cases fired in the larger chambers have expanded to a diameter that prevents chambering in the smaller chambers.

Solution #1: As previously suggested, use one lot of cases for one revolver and another lot of cases for the other.

Solution #2: Have a qualified gunsmith ream out the smaller diameter chambers to match those of the larger diameter piece.

Solution #1 sounds much easier and much less expensive.

Best regards.

 

[scooter123]

As can be seen in this thread there are multiple potential causes. In order to determine an exact cause I find that proceeding methodically is usually the shortest path to a solution.

1) It's been suggested that the case heads may be expanded. Any easy way to confirm of eliminate this possibility is to insert some empty, sized, and unflared case into the chambers of your Ruger. If they hang up in the same manner as your completed cartridges it would lead me to conclude that the case head is indeed expanded.

2) Another potential is a cylinder that still has enough of a carbon ring to prevent a case from being inserted fully. One test that may be revealing is to insert a fired casing from your model 19. By doing this you will actually be testing if the chambers in your Ruger are indeed smaller than those in your model 19. If that is the case you probably will not be able to get the fired casing in the chambers on your Ruger or they will only go in by a small amount. If the chambers in your Ruger are actually at a similar size to your model 19 then those cases will slide right in. Then if you find they stop about 1/8 inch shy of fully seated I think that it would be reasonable to conclude the cylinder on your Ruger still needs some work. If so a 40 caliber brush chucked up in a drill at low speed with some Hoppes #9 or similar cleaner should help in getting that carbon cleaned out.

3) Next potential problem area is oversize bullets in cases with thicker than typical walls. This can cause an assembled cartridge that is over the SAAMI maximum diameter enough to cause issues in a chamber that is slightly carboned up or machined with a slight taper. It will also cause a complete no go situation if the chambers were reamed to the SAAMI minimum or under for the chamber diameter. One solution to this particular issue is to use a Lee Factory Crimp Die to crimp your cases. Because the FCD features a sizing ring that is set specifically to the maximum SAAMI case diameter. Yeah, it can size a big bullet down a bit but I've never observed any loss in accuracy when using the Lee FCD.

Finally, it's been suggested that you do some measuring and I think that is an excellent suggestion. As an aid to doing this you will find the attached PDF of the SAAMI specifications for 357 Magnum useful.

 

[pharos]

Reloads won't fit in Ruger Security-Six

Thanks for all the good info and suggestions. I think I'll take the lazy man's way out and get a Lee FCD. Looking for one load for my 357's and little Marlin lever gun.

On a related note, I've only posted on this site a few times, although I visit here almost daily. In my view, this is the best firearms site on the 'net. Guess I'm not much of an Internet gadfly, but like lots of others, I'm out there, and appreciate the vast amount of knowledge available here.

Thanks, again.

Pharos

 

[reddog81]

I have had the same experience however the guns were different models. I have a Ruger GP100, S&W M28-2, model 66(no dash). My model 66 has the tightest tolerances, and the GP100 has the loosest tolerances. Rounds that won't even make it half way into the model 66 will chamber in the GP100 with a slight push.

I have always taken the easy way out to resolve the problem. Shoot the slightly oversized rounds in the Ruger.

 

[elpac3]

sell the Ruger

 

[mikld]

Being a lifelong machinist/mechanic and reloading for 30 years, I find using a Lee FCD when a real problem is identified as offensive. To further your reloading expertise, find out why the rounds will not chamber! If you don't find a solution to this problem, what are you going to do the next time you have a problem? Alter your gun to fit your misshapen ammo?

IMO using an FCD is like having a nail in a tire, and just stopping by a gas station every five blocks, adding air. Don't remove the nail and patch the hole, just add more air! Your ammo doesn't fit. Why not fix it???

 

[Shooter Magaven]

Being a lifelong machinist/mechanic and reloading for 30 years, I find using a Lee FCD when a real problem is identified as offensive. To further your reloading expertise, find out why the rounds will not chamber! If you don't find a solution to this problem, what are you going to do the next time you have a problem? Alter your gun to fit your misshapen ammo?

IMO using an FCD is like having a nail in a tire, and just stopping by a gas station every five blocks, adding air. Don't remove the nail and patch the hole, just add more air! Your ammo doesn't fit. Why not fix it???

I agree with this ^
But moreover, how does a Lee FCD fix the problem? Is the problem the flare or roll crimp? I never saw where this was identified as the issue. Maybe you did and I just missed it

 

[bigsteve113]

Scrub those charge holes out real good and/or use the LEE Factory Crimp Die!

 

[Big Stick]

Mic the bullets.... and the OD of the loaded case at the crimp....

 

[chuck0291]

I had the same problem with my older J frame and my security six. They would stick out the back of the cylinder about an 1/8 to 3\16 inch. I bought the Lee FCD and solved the problem.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Using a FCD is not offensive in itself. But the first step is a micrometer, if you handload , you ought to have one anyway.. Measure everything. Umfired cases every location , fired cases likewise, bullets themselves.

There is strong group suspicion of chamber deposits from firing .38Spls . But could be chamber(s) or die(s) out of spec , or tolerence stacking. Complete Mic'ing will soon tell the story.

 

[scooter123]

There are those who thing the Lee FCD is the work of he Devil and those who feel the Lee FCD is a useful tool.

I happen to be one of the latter. Because I have actually checked with Micrometers and have found that second sizing ring insures that my cases are sized correctly to the SAAMI maximum case diameter. As for them reducing the size of bullets in a heavy walled case, I have a reflex sight equipped model 620 that from a rest I can routinely shoot 1.5 inch groups at 25 yards with and I have seen zero observable loss in accuracy from these "resized" bullets.

I also know that it was the Lee FCD that allowed me to "correct" some buckled 357 Magnums I had produced when I was experimenting with a combined Seat/Crimp setup using an RCBS die. That saved me from about an hours work breaking those buckled rounds down and all but one case looked perfect after fire forming.

 

[ironhead7544]

Tolerance stacking is a real problem with ammo. The fact is that you can get out of spec components.

I just bought some carry ammo for my M12-3. Some of it would not fit in the chambers and would hang up when used in speedloaders. I check all my carry ammo in each chamber before using. With the autoloader, I take the barrel out and use the plunk test.

I ran the new 38 Special ammo through the Lee Factory Crimp die and that fixed the problem. There was no discernable crimp on the lead HP bullets right out of the box. I checked some other ammo of the same type and they had a good crimp on them. The chambers on my M12-3 are tight and I am considering reaming them.

I use the Lee Factory Crimp die on all loads except match rifle. I dont need problems at the range. For revolvers that need oversized cast bullets, the LFC can be a problem as it will size the case to fit any factory chamber. If this is the case, then you can modify the die to suit the chambers.

If you look at the bullets Elmer Keith designed, you will see a good crimp groove. Elmer said this was because of tolerance stacking. The deep, tapered crimp groove would at least hold the bullet in the case.

With a small crimp groove it is easy to get a bulge which will keep the round from chambering. The LFC will smooth this out.

 

[johngalt]

When I first started reloading I bought some Oregon trail .358 148gr DE wad cutters. They must have been oversized, they wouldn't chamber in my 686. Followed the advice to run them through the lee factory crimp die. That solved the chambering issue, but accuracy was terrible.

I no longer buy Oregon trail bullets, there are much better choices out there.

 

[mikld]

I agree with this ^
But moreover, how does a Lee FCD fix the problem? Is the problem the flare or roll crimp? I never saw where this was identified as the issue. Maybe you did and I just missed it

An FCD, for handguns, fixes nothing. Any bulges or excessive flares are just covered up, ironed out. The problem still exists, just hidden...

 

[SMSgt]

My experience with the FCD is that it's a bandaid for mal-adjusted dies or some other reloader problem.

I had some issues when I first started reloading 45 ACPs and the FCD would ensure they chambered. When I finally took the time to correctly adjust my seating/crimping die (and it takes several adjustments to get teh proper results) the FCD was no longer needed. It can reduce the diameter of a lead bullet, causing accuracy problems.