First time firing my 360 PD bad experience

[Jcon72]

And that 3 inch model 60 is about as cute a little gun as they ever made. Mine shoots 158 grain loads about 1,205 fps. It is not pleasant but not brutal either. Love the gun, looks like a big gun but it is not. Adjustable sights are great in the daytime, but I just put a Crimson Trace laser on it and they are great, at night or low light, shoot the thing from the hip all day long. Love the little guy.


The full size ammo is factory JSP 180 grain bullets, and the little guys are 38 Short Colt loaded for the grand daughter.

You can load the Short Colt to 357 pressures, they eject faster than the longer cases.

I have the dash-4 in .38 Spl and totally agree with you. Cutest little thing ever, and it's not unpleasant at all to shoot.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Not going to wade through the entire thread; it does sound that Buffalo Bore had too much of too much.
Will say, owning a 340, and having fired a buddy's 360, the Chief's version is the nastiest kicking little SOB ever (remember, I own a 340....). The Chief version sits higher in the hand than the Centennial.
Smith's Ti guns are often an answer to an unasked question. Just parted with a 325, the darn thing just wasn't much fun. Can't even imagine a 329.
Look, love my 340 as a hiking gun, first two/three chambers with snakeshot, remainder with full charge WCs or 140 FMJ magnums (ouch). It's fine shooting the full charge WCs.
But let's keep the Ti stuff to places where light weight actually makes sense.
Moon

 

[larondo]

I have the dash-4 in .38 Spl and totally agree with you. Cutest little thing ever, and it's not unpleasant at all to shoot.


View attachment 792041

That's a nice looking Model 60 w/ Boot Grip.

Model 65 Lady Smith in .357 Magnum, .38 spl shoots just fine.
Except, more burnt powder will dirty up the front of cylinder quickly. Because of the slightly shorter case length.

I think it's a -7 or -8, hence the trigger lock. Can be modified/plugged. It doesn't create a problem.

 

[Revelation]

That was exactly my position. Only $20. They actually do help with the really hot ammo, which brings me to a point, do I really need that stuff? LOL

You know, I've been questioning myself a lot lately, "Do I really need that stuff?"

 

[crasig]

I ended up selling every alloy frame handgun I bought shortly after testing - either painful, or clacking like a bag of junk -inspiring NO confidence. I no longer even consider them.
The WORST was a FEG P-63 9x18 - It felt like I'd hacked my hand with a hatchet - Seriously
Now a confirmed STEEL frame owner.
Here's a Mug shot of the miscreant = BEWARE

 

[GnarlsR2]

I'm glad to read that ZephyrR1 was not injured.
In 47 years I have never shot a +P round.
I don't recall any of my 12 active range buddies using a +P round.
Is a standard , non +P 357 magnum round NOT lethal enough?

 

[Shibadog]

The gun in question is chambered in .357 Magnum. It may be unpleasant to shoot with heavy loads. But any SAAMI factory .357 ammo should be safe to shoot in any gun factory chambered for it. I love Smith and Wesson, have a bunch of their stock in my retirement portfolio, and own a dozen of their revolvers. That said, some of their later production, especially alloy frame guns in my experience, is not as good as it should be. I have shot a few very heavy bear loads in my 60-18, which is all steel, they are accurate and foolproof. Recoil is fierce. I have shot 2 of the same load in a Ruger LCR 1 7/8" .357. They will kick the lard out of your biscuit, but no mechanical issues. The load is Starline brass, mag primer, Lil'Gun powder, and a 187 gr. Cast Performance hard lead gas check bullet. 1325 FPS out of the 5" Smith 60-18.

Remember though a few years back several compact .357's came with ammo restrictions because of the "kinetic bullet puller" effect from certain rounds with certain bullet weights (I seem to remember it being the lightweight .357 slugs). Heavy recoil with rounds that are not tightly crimped can indeed result in slugs moving and locking up a cylinder. Rounds in question work just fine in heavier steel guns which have less recoil due to the weight of the firearm.

 

[halfmoonclip]

Is a standard , non +P 357 magnum round NOT lethal enough?

Good point. Encounter the same dilemma with +P 9mm. A P365 will handle it, mechanically, but the combination of greater recoil, slower follow up shots, and eventual gun wear makes it a bad idea for me.
Save the hotrod loads for full-size service pistols.
Moon

 

[GnarlsR2]

I'm glad to read that ZephyrR1 was not injured.
In 47 years I have never shot a +P round.
I don't recall any of my 12 active range buddies using a +P round.
Is a standard , non +P 357 magnum round NOT lethal enough?

I had dinner with 8 range buddies last night. I asked who loads +P into their defense carry, and 2 of 3 guys said they load a +P round for their carry, but shoot standard for practice and at the range. One guy is a retired Deputy Sheriff, the other guy is former Firearms Instructor.

Guy #3 said he loads standard 9mm in his defense carry. I asked why the +P round, they both said "velocity".

 

[Well Armed]

I see humor is not your strong point. So be it.

They do sell ammo outside of SAAMI specs. They just add a +p or a +p+ to make it "ok".

There is nothing dishonest about that statement. It is what they do.

That there are industry standards for some cartridges using the +p designation and they use such designation where standards to do not exist could be construed as misleading.

I am sure there are buyers of this stuff that think they are buying something that is actually adhering to an industry standard when they are not.

If SAAMI doesn't have specs for something, you can't be out of it. It's simple logic that's lost on you. To say BB sells ammo outside of SAAMI specs is to imply that the specifications and BB has ignored them, which is NOT the case.

SAAMI has specs for the 9mm cartridge, so if BB sells 9mm that's not within those specs, then their 9mm is out of SAAMI specs. Likewise, SAAMI has specs for the 9mm +P cartridge, so if BB sells 9mm +P that's not within those specs, then their 9mm +P is out of SAAMI specs. SAAMI has not recognized 9mm +P+ or even 45 Super cartridges, so it's impossible for any manufacturer to make ammo within specs that don't exist. Likewise, legislators have not written laws making specific action illegal, then you can not logically be acting outside of the law when performing that act.

SAAMI has specs for 9mm +P and other +P cartridges that ammo and firearm manufacturers can adhere to. 9mm and 9mm +P are completely different cartridges, each with their own specs! Like 38 Spl vs. 38 Spl +P, guns can be chambered to shoot the 9mm cartridge only, for which there are specs for, or the 9mm and the 9mm +P cartridges. SAAMI may recognize and create specs for the 9mm +P+, 45 Super, and any other cartridges they don't have specs for yet in the future, and if or when they do, then and only then can BB or any ammo manufacturers be in or out of their specs.

When you buy a gun, the manufacturer tells you what cartridge(s) the gun is rated for. If the manufacturer says the handgun is rated for 22 LR, 32 H&R, 380 ACP, 9mm, 9mm +P, 30 Super Carry, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 45 ACP, 45 ACP +P, 10mm, 38 Spl, 357 Mag, 327 MAG, 44 Spl, 44 MAG, etc., then ALL OF BUFFALO BORE'S AMMO THAT'S IN THOSE AFOREMENTIONED CARTRIDGES WILL BE WITHIN SAAMI SPECS! NOT ABOVE THEM!

Every cartridge that Buffalo Bore sells that SAAMI has specs for is within SAAMI specs! Buffalo Bore is NOT selling 22lr, 32 H&R, 380 ACP, 9mm, 9mm +P, 30 Super Carry, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 45 ACP, 45 ACP +P, 10mm, 38 Spl, 357 Mag, 327 MAG, 44 Spl, 44 MAG, and so on and so forth that are out of SAAMI specs, like so many uneducated clueless internet "experts" keep accusing them of doing!

 

[Well Armed]

Clueless fools always like to jump to conclusions and blame the ammo. In many cases, firearm manufacturers don't manufacture and design their firearms to handle ammo that are within SAAMI specs! The S&W 340 PD and 360 PD are prime example of firearms that aren't built to be able to shoot all ammo that's within SAAMI's 357 MAG specs. It's NOT the ammo manufacturers fault nor does it mean the ammo manufacture is loading their ammo too hot when their ammo ammo blows up a gun that's out of spec for the cartridge it's rated for.

 

[malph]

If SAAMI doesn't have specs for something, you can't be out of it. It's simple logic that's lost on you. To say BB sells ammo outside of SAAMI specs is to imply that the specifications and BB has ignored them, which is NOT the case.

SAAMI has specs for the 9mm cartridge, so if BB sells 9mm that's not within those specs, then their 9mm is out of SAAMI specs. Likewise, SAAMI has specs for the 9mm +P cartridge, so if BB sells 9mm +P that's not within those specs, then their 9mm +P is out of SAAMI specs. SAAMI has not recognized 9mm +P+ or even 45 Super cartridges, so it's impossible for any manufacturer to make ammo within specs that don't exist. Likewise, legislators have not written laws making specific action illegal, then you can not logically be acting outside of the law when performing that act.

SAAMI has specs for 9mm +P and other +P cartridges that ammo and firearm manufacturers can adhere to. 9mm and 9mm +P are completely different cartridges, each with their own specs! Like 38 Spl vs. 38 Spl +P, guns can be chambered to shoot the 9mm cartridge only, for which there are specs for, or the 9mm and the 9mm +P cartridges. SAAMI may recognize and create specs for the 9mm +P+, 45 Super, and any other cartridges they don't have specs for yet in the future, and if or when they do, then and only then can BB or any ammo manufacturers be in or out of their specs.

When you buy a gun, the manufacturer tells you what cartridge(s) the gun is rated for. If the manufacturer says the handgun is rated for 22 LR, 32 H&R, 380 ACP, 9mm, 9mm +P, 30 Super Carry, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 45 ACP, 45 ACP +P, 10mm, 38 Spl, 357 Mag, 327 MAG, 44 Spl, 44 MAG, etc., then ALL OF BUFFALO BORE'S AMMO THAT'S IN THOSE AFOREMENTIONED CARTRIDGES WILL BE WITHIN SAAMI SPECS! NOT ABOVE THEM!

Every cartridge that Buffalo Bore sells that SAAMI has specs for is within SAAMI specs! Buffalo Bore is NOT selling 22lr, 32 H&R, 380 ACP, 9mm, 9mm +P, 30 Super Carry, 40 S&W, 357 SIG, 45 ACP, 45 ACP +P, 10mm, 38 Spl, 357 Mag, 327 MAG, 44 Spl, 44 MAG, and so on and so forth that are out of SAAMI specs, like so many uneducated clueless internet "experts" keep accusing them of doing!

I understand your perspective. I understand it's not illegal. I still don't agree with the practice.

 

[Well Armed]

I understand your perspective. I understand it's not illegal. I still don't agree with the practice.

So no company should be able to make offer any cartridge that some consumers want unless one organization, e.i., SAAMI, unilaterally decides to recognize the cartridge and create specs for it? I personally like 45 Super. There's no SAAMI spec for it yet. There are guns and conversion kits that can handle the cartridge. You don't agree that BB and other manufacturers should be allowed to sell that ammo not I should be allowed to buy it?

HK rates their USP for use with 9mm +P+. You don't agree that Buffalo Bore should be able to sell it to those who want to shoot the +P+ cartridge out of a gun that's rated and built to be able to handle it?

HK rates USP and Springfield Arms rates their XDM for use with 45 Super out the box. Their guns are built to handle it. There are 1911s that are built to handle 45 Super as well. You don't agree with selling this cartridge to those who typically want to carry it for hunting purposes in guns that are rated for it because SAAMI hasn't created standards yet?

You disagree with the selling of 460 Rowland as no SAAMI specs exist?

What if SAAMI removes their existing specs for 38Spl +P, 9mm +P, and 45 ACP +P, then will you be against and will no longer agree with any ammo manufacturers selling those cartridges?

380 +P, 9mm +P+, 45 Super, 460 Rowland, etc. are all different and distinct cartridges. People should only buy and shoot ammo that their specific firearm is rated for. Some firearms can handle and are rated for the aforementioned cartridges (just like some revolvers are rated for 38 +P), so I don't understand why anyone would disagree with the selling of the ammo.

 

[Joe4d]

I just want to know what Smith and Wesson said

 

[Lance Boyle]

"You're a better man than me Gunga Din."
Old 357 shooter here. Have fired thousands in K, L and N's,
Some in Colts and Rugers.
A few of the Sissy Boy regular brands in J's.
60, 640 and 649. Didn't enjoy it, will only do it again if circumstances absolutely require me to.

I don't own a snub gun (yet) but if I did I'd be quite content with .38 special and probably stainless steel.

 

[JMD999]

I didn't realize BB had a warning like that. I like their .38+P rounds which approach other's .357 power

Where is the "warning" in this text? What am I missing?
Here is Buffalo Bore's warning on their website regarding your particular load.

BUFFALO-BARNES LEAD-FREE 357 Mag Low Flash-Short Barrel Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

BUFFALO-BARNES LEAD-FREE 357 Mag Low Flash-Short Barrel Field Proven pistol and handgun ammo. Maximum firepower bullets. Best ammunition for pistols and handguns for sale. Buffalo Bore. Strictly big bore. Strictly Business.
But I did find this warning: (which makes more sense)
"This load is the typical barn-burning, turbocharged, Buffalo Bore type HEAVY 357 Mag. load and as such, should only be used in revolvers made of all steel. It should not be fired in a lightweight, alloy framed or cylindered revolver. Feel free to use it in ANY/ALL 357 mag. chambered rifles and all steel revolvers/handguns."

 

[Lance Boyle]

They are indeed brutal.

I think a .32 H&R version that they make now is about the right balance for the weight. certainly not a .327 Federal cartridge.

 

[681ismyfavorite]

Buffalo Bore .25acp 50gr. FMJ @850 fps from a 2" bbl is my go to for carry if I drop a Beretta 950 in my pocket.

Long live properly loaded .25acp ammo!

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I don't own a snub gun (yet) but if I did I'd be quite content with .38 special and probably stainless steel.

I have carried stubbies for decades as BUGS and concealed carry guns. I have a 2" S&W Model 12-2 (1963 vintage) which I only shoot with standard pressure .38 Special which was my BUG until I retired, a no-lock S&W Model 642-1 BUBUG for ankle/pocket carry, a 3" S&W Model 13-3 .357 Magnum for plainclothes work, and, since I've retired, a 2" Taurus 856 UltraLite, and a 3" Taurus 856 Stainless Defender. I carry 135 gr Speer .38 Special +P Short Barrel ammo in the 642 and both 856s. Recently I bought a ported Taurus 3" 692 with 2 7-shot cylinders, one in .357 Mag and one in 9x19mm with a Crimson Trace grip and a 3" Ruger LCRx .357 Mag. I haven't standardized ammo for these last two. My duty revolvers were a 4" S&W Model 65-1 and later a 4" S&W 686-6. I was the last revolver toter in my agency when I retired as a captain for the 3rd time in 2018.

One of my lieutenants brought a S&W 340PD to qualification and asked me to shoot it and give him my impressions. I managed to shoot a cylinder of .357 Mag duty ammo (Speer 135 gr Short Barrel) before I gave it back to him. I told him IMHO an 11.5 ounce .357 Mag was stupid and to load it with .38 Spl +P at most. BTW, the guys at S&W told me that the non Performance Center Jr frames are assembled in about a minute. That might explain quality control issues.

Today I carried my 5" 9x19mm Tisas M1911A1 on my belt with the 642-1 in my pocket.

Back to the main subject, I have seen many gun shop employees sell what I consider to be inappropriate gun/caliber combinations to ladies (and some guys) which is what IMHO happened here. I believe a S&W Model 60 or Airweight Model 637 in .38 Spl would have been more appropriate.

 

[Outfront]

Hi All
Any updates on how she made out ??
Ty