Remember when the term ".38 Special" mean't a serious service revolver?

[Miami_JBT]

I'm a Gen X'er and grew up in the era of the Wonder Nines and AWB. As a cop I've carried .40 S&W GLOCKs but I always had a 642 until a recent policy change. I own Model 64s, 10s, 15s, etc... and I have carried them off duty numerous times. I respect the .38 Special and know that it can still do the job. Has it been eclipsed somewhat with newer cartridges? Sure,but it hasn't diminished in its lethality. The .38 Special with a good modern JHP will still lay the smack down if need be and I don't feel under armed with one.

 

[old bear]

Doug.38PR
What a great story, I think it's great that you and your dad are/were so close.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I remember when I was 11 years old (1950) on a family visit to relatives in Kentucky. I was in the back seat of our car when my dad and my grand-uncle, a country doctor, were talking about a local miscreant who got shot by a homeowner. I remember "uncle doc" speaking about the fact that he was shot with a .38 special, not a .22 or a .32, in somewhat reverent tones. The .38 special was still a big deal in that era.

Here are a couple of standout .38 special guns that were commonly used by police in the 1920s and 1930s. The one on top is a S&W M&P, Model of 1905, 4th change, dating from 1923. The lower gun is a Colt Police Positive Special, 1st model, which was produced in 1922. Both have 6-inch barrels.

When the Smith N-frame Heavy Duty and Outdoorsman .38 specials were introduced, they took the new higher-powered .38/44 cartridges, which today would be considered on a par with many of today's .357 magnum loads. These guns were the direct predecessors of the .357 revolvers. Here's a 1957 Heavy Duty:

The .38 special is not to be sneezed at as a viable defense cartridge even today.

John

 

[TACC1]

This is another Great thread!!

Have the good luck to be friends with a former armorer
who has told me tons of things about old and new guns.
Because of that, I have respect for cartridges that are laughed at
in today's world. Nowadays, I'll carry just about anything,
in the knowledge that generations have depended on .25's,
.32's, & etc. to protect the people that carried them.
The way I see it, you're only under-gunned if you are Not
carrying. A 442 with 200gr goodness in all the holes is
my current load, but I'm not worried if I'm using wadcutters, either.
We all have to find our own way.....
TACC1

 

[GF]

With the right ammo, I think an M&P from 1947 ...

... would still be a "serious service revolver".

GF

 

[BAM-BAM]

Paladin,

Don't have any experience with the .38 heavy duty.......

..... but I seem to remember that the .38 spl. case was/is a "black powder" size case and there is a lot of room in there for smokeless powder.... to get that .38 moving to .357 speeds and power.

The only reason for the ".357cartrage" was to give it a longer case so it wouldn't fit in all those old .38s out there.......

Seems all our ammo is wimpy compared to the era when men were men and .....Elmer Keith was building true "hand cannons!"

 

[sac-gunslinger]

but because they only carry six rounds, they have fallen out of favor as duty carry weapon for most law enforcement agencies.

Many shooters today think that they can use "spray-and-pray" in place of careful shot placement. They frequently use the "I'm being attacked by multiple assailants" argument. This has elevated high-cap semi-automatic pistols to fashion statements.

When I was instructing, I would ask my high-cap-infatuated students what those assailants would be doing to justify the student shooting at them. "Why, shooting at me, of course". Then I would ask how the high-cap pistol would protect them from all those incoming rounds while they were shooting. That question was usually followed by a brooding silence.

Next, they would pop up with "well, the 38 is useless" at which point I would share the exploits of a couple NYPD officers and their experiences with plain ol' M10 38s.

After that the conversation usually devolved into suggestions about the marital status of my parents. "A man convinced against his will is unconvinced still"

 

[jtcarm]

Well, I'm a baby boomer, but I've never really considered the .38 Special as a serious service revolver. To me it was the .357 magnum or the .41 magnum. Don't get me wrong, I don't necessarily feel the .38 is a pipsqueak, but it does pale in comparison to the other two.

Now back in the mid to late 50's every TV cop or detective had some form of a .38 and it was kind of burned into our brains at an early age what a powerful gun it was. But that was TV and movies.

Yes, but it was also TV and movies where cops packed 6" .357s under their suit & blazed away with little recoil, or fired a .44 magnum with a single hand. And seem to "stitch" the bad guys, connecting with every round, when in truth the best law enforcement agencies manage 25% hits (dunno if that # is current)

 

[sac-gunslinger]

With the right ammo, I think an M&P from 1947 ...... would still be a "serious service revolver".

I'm with you GF. A good standard pressure load with a LSWCHP bullet will clean a miscreant's clock.

I would have a 1952 M&P today but the one I recently saw at a local LGS was poorly refinished and had a trigger like an RG-Rohm. For $400+!!! Well, this is the People's Republik.

 

[A10]

I remember some "Super Val" ?

Super Vel, pretty advanced ammo for the time. Lighter weight bullets, sharp angled ogive, a +P type loading, and an exposed lead hollow point to help assure expansion. I still have some in .44 Mag laying around the house somewhere. It's what I carried in my 29 back then.

 

[GerSan69]

Great father and son story, Doug, thank you!

 

[GyMac]

When I started out in shooting I didn't have the time of day for a ".38," except for a Detective Special as it was the only kind of gun I felt appropriate for the round. Times change and now I own 7 and would not be without one. They are just fun to shoot. Because for me, shooting is mainly about fun. Otherwise I'd probably be happy with just one gun. I know my wife would be.

 

[pharmer]

Down here in the swamp we like 'em grey to keep 'em from turning brown. Certainly wouldn't be undergunned with this. Joe

 

[Pointblank2U]

The .38 Special is just as effective as it always was, which is considerable. There's just a lot of hype today in order to sell new guns and ammunition. Reliability and Shot Placement matter most, the rest is extraneous.

 

[jimmyj]

Down here in the swamp we like 'em grey to keep 'em from turning brown. Certainly wouldn't be undergunned with this. Joe

WOW, OH WOW !!
A S&W Model 64-no dash ! My first Agency issue service revolver.
If I had a "Wish" I would have one again. No bells, whistles, or high capacity, just plain business. Brings back fond memories.

 

[swca940]

I took my son to the range last week. At 19 you would think he would want to shoot my Sig's or Beretta's, something more "modern", but no... the old Model 10-8 was his first choice.
It is always in my range bag, always used and treasured.
It is one gun I will never sell because I like it's history and tradition,

 

[sac-gunslinger]

The .38 Special is just as effective as it always was, which is considerable. There's just a lot of hype today in order to sell new guns and ammunition. Reliability and Shot Placement matter most, the rest is extraneous.

Excellent, excellent point. I will not complain about new "stuff" coming out. Heck, that's what makes collecting fun. We just have to realize that the introduction of new items (guns, ammo, holsters, whatever) is designed to entice us to buy. And that enticement is easier to achieve if a siren voice from the wings is whispering "the old one you have will no longer work."

All of my handguns are 38 revolvers (OK, one 357). I ain't too worried about being defenseless.

And I am still using "old fashioned" leather holsters as well.

 

[Beach-Hunter]

The 38 Special.....funny how life can make a complete 360 on you

My first center fire pistol was a .38 special COLT MK-III a State police turn in...I then bought a 2nd one both were nickle plated...I paid $129.00 each for them...believe they were a odd 5" bbl. I then had to have a snub like I saw millions of times on those 1970's tv shows!! Got a charter arms undercover. Then I was brainwashed by the "gunshop counter jockey's"....YOU NEED MORE POWER.....over the next almost 20 years I had 15 different 44 mags...hot rodded 45 colts....I fired thousands of rounds...may be why I have Arthritis in my hands now...I then tappered down to the 9mm & 357.....Now my last 5 guns have been 38 specials J frames mostly...but one model 65 mixed in a 3" model I sold in a moment of stupid...so I have come full circle back to the grand old 38 special...I got a 1960's model 60 I'll take to the grave... I always shot the 38 special best...and evey thing I shot with it died!! I can't say that about the 44 or 45...lol I'm sure it was a shot placement issue...cause I'm always more care full with the 38...I think we suffer from over confedence with the bigger cal's...long live the 38 special!!...in the 80's they talked of it being "DEAD" LOL

 

[shouldazagged]

I've never been able to afford to be a collector or even an accumulator. My profession for 37 of my 55 working years was notoriously underpaid but needed. I need guns that will work to defend my elderly carcass--I'm no boomer, but a high-mileage 1937 model.

I have them. A 2" J-frame for EDC and a fixed-sight 4" K for home defense. Both .38 Special, both stoked with the old FBI load. Everything I need and nothing I don't, to quote a phrase I read here fairly often.

The combination of revolver and .38 Special +P 158-grain LSWCHP has been getting the job done for many years. It's what I'm comfortable and confident with, and certainly not marginal in my book.

 

[littleriver1]

A serious service revolver, indeed. I went into the service after high school in 1963 and was in the military police. A 38 special was the only thing anyone used. We didn’t think about much else. Some would talk about their guns at home but every one learned to use that revolver. When I got out of the service I picked up a 38 special for myself. I had friends show me 357’s and 44 magnums and tell me I needed more power, but for some reason I always felt at home with the 38. I have an M&P 9 but I still always carry a 38 special. I’m not a great shot and never competed. I’ve never pulled that gun and hope I never do, but if I do, I’m confident it will do what’s needed. They say practice makes perfect but at my age, practice is fun.