FBI Revolver Video - 1950's/Early 60's - YouTube Check out this FBI training video.
Remember when the term ".38 Special" mean't a serious service revolver?
- Thread starter Doug.38PR
- Start date
Cocked & Locked
Member
Aint nothing wrong with a good .38 Special.
I'm the son of a baby boomers (born 1968). My father is retired cop (1970-1994). As a kid the .38 Special was definitely on it's way out as a "serious" or "duty" load. My father carried a nickel plated Model 10 for the first couple years of his career and then switched to a Model 28 in 73. In 91 his agency went to the Model 4586 (45ACP). So as a kid I was instructed that the .38 Special was acceptable for BUG and target shooting, but not as a serious duty/primary load.
Having said that one of my great uncles (dad's uncle) was a police officer for 36 years (1949-1985). He started out with a 6" nickel plated M&P (he was down in Tennessee - lots of humidity), went over to a 4" Model 10 with the heavy barrel in the late fifties and finally to a 2" Model 10 when he made detective in the sixties. That was the model he carried up to the day he retired in 85. He had to shoot three suspects during his 36 years as a cop. He not only made it to retirement, but he never went to the hospital. So the .38 worked for him.
Now my uncle was a gun guy and a good shot. He owned many magnum revolvers and various 9mm and 45ACP pistols, but he always stuck with the .38 Special revolver for his duty piece. Even after it was no longer mandatory. He liked the load and he trusted it. So go figure.
I collect .38 Special revolvers (Colt, Ruger & S&W). They tend to be more reasonably priced on the second-hand market and often they are in better condition than the magnum revolvers. Especially the duty models. Now I'm not so sure this state of affairs will continue, but for now I'm taking advantage of it. The .38 Special is one of my favorites.
Having said that one of my great uncles (dad's uncle) was a police officer for 36 years (1949-1985). He started out with a 6" nickel plated M&P (he was down in Tennessee - lots of humidity), went over to a 4" Model 10 with the heavy barrel in the late fifties and finally to a 2" Model 10 when he made detective in the sixties. That was the model he carried up to the day he retired in 85. He had to shoot three suspects during his 36 years as a cop. He not only made it to retirement, but he never went to the hospital. So the .38 worked for him.
Now my uncle was a gun guy and a good shot. He owned many magnum revolvers and various 9mm and 45ACP pistols, but he always stuck with the .38 Special revolver for his duty piece. Even after it was no longer mandatory. He liked the load and he trusted it. So go figure.
I collect .38 Special revolvers (Colt, Ruger & S&W). They tend to be more reasonably priced on the second-hand market and often they are in better condition than the magnum revolvers. Especially the duty models. Now I'm not so sure this state of affairs will continue, but for now I'm taking advantage of it. The .38 Special is one of my favorites.
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66Park
Member
I just ordered some boxes of the Buffalo Bore 150 gr. Hard Cast Wad Cutters. Looks like some pretty serious self defense ammo to me. I think I'll feel pretty confident with it in my M36.
Malpasowildlifer
Member
well said. I wish I could carry a 58. Growing up in the 80's and being interested in police work and firearms, I knew the .38 Special was on its way out. however, I always considered it a great target piece and BUG, especially if it is properly loaded. Learning more about the round over the years, I don't think it is too bad. One of my BUG's is a 640.
Personally, I'd rather carry a properly loaded .38 Special out of a 4'' Heavy Duty than my issued Glock 22, but that is just me.
About two years ago, I was working in at the Courthouse in Farmerville, LA of Union Parish, Louisiana. Most of the police there seemed to carry Sig Sauer handguns. But one young deputy, probably younger than even me, was escorting some prisoners and was carrying a S&W revolver with magna grips (since they were magna not target I assume it is more possible that they were for a .38 Special rather than a .357 Magnum)
sac-gunslinger
Member
Years ago had to evaluate an employees' pre-employment record. 10 years on NYPD, three shootings, six fatalities. All with M10 and 158 RNL ammo, all "one shot stops."
He was not a gun guy, thought those of us who were gun guys were crazy. He just followed instructions and his training and proved a better success record than most of us have achieved.
All with the "inferior" 158 RNL load. His results changed my thinking.
bmcgilvray
Member
There's no way the .38 Special may be considered not a success. Only a lack of experience with the round can make such an assertion.
Those of us who have fired the .38 Special in the line of duty understand that your marksmanship makes all the difference.
This Model 10 saved my life one dark night investigating an open door at a auto parts warehouse...my partner and I went home that night. The bad guys didn't. 158 gr. FBI LSWCHP +P.
This Model 10 saved my life one dark night investigating an open door at a auto parts warehouse...my partner and I went home that night. The bad guys didn't. 158 gr. FBI LSWCHP +P.
sac-gunslinger
Member
Glad it worked out OK for you and your partner, those are the outcomes we all pray for.
Nice lookin' rig, too. Found myself wanting to put it around my waist. (don't nobody mention that it wouldn't fit, ok?
). At the risk of seeming ol' fashioned, I still prefer a well-fitted leather holster and belt over plastic and web.
KKECK5
Member
FIRST department issued weapon was a S&W model 10...back in the late 1960's. I forget the grain, but i know of officers that exchanged gunfire were it was later found that the round did not penetrate the subject's winter coat. Later they issued a heavy hollow point load, they were afraid of ricochets in the subways. Around 1980 we were issued Ruger Speed six's with hollow point +p rounds. I was allowed to carry my own S&W model 36, but i had to use the department ammo. The model 36 was not always happy with the +p ammo.
KKECK5
Member
Those of us who have fired the .38 Special in the line of duty understand that your marksmanship makes all the difference.
This Model 10 saved my life one dark night investigating an open door at a auto parts warehouse...my partner and I went home that night. The bad guys didn't. 158 gr. FBI LSWCHP +P.
Down the basement i still have two of my old Sam Brown rigs with holsters, cuff case and speed loaders still attached. Every couple of years i go down and try them on......How fat did i get?
Consider this there is at least one place in the U.S. where carrying a .38spl in uniform is required.
St. Louis City/County Metro Lic. Armed Security Officers can only carry a 4" 6 shot .38 spl, and no not a .357 with .38spl ammo.. a .38 spl. chambered revolver.
They have opened it up a bit so that certain people have exemptions (bank guards, ect) can carry 9mm semi-auto pistols (even those are regulated to certain ones).
Keep in mind, Missouri is also a CCW state.. So off duty you could carry that nice big 1911, or even a .357 snubby.. but on duty (no ccw in uniform) a .38 spl. 6 shot revolver 4" in length.
St. Louis City/County Metro Lic. Armed Security Officers can only carry a 4" 6 shot .38 spl, and no not a .357 with .38spl ammo.. a .38 spl. chambered revolver.
They have opened it up a bit so that certain people have exemptions (bank guards, ect) can carry 9mm semi-auto pistols (even those are regulated to certain ones).
Keep in mind, Missouri is also a CCW state.. So off duty you could carry that nice big 1911, or even a .357 snubby.. but on duty (no ccw in uniform) a .38 spl. 6 shot revolver 4" in length.
Hey! I resemble that remark.
I'm glad there are still cops who'd rather carry a good revolver than combat Tupperware.
I find it comforting that there are still LEOs who value marksmanship over lead-squirting.
WaMike
Member
"I'm glad there are still cops who'd rather carry a good revolver than combat Tupperware.
I find it comforting that there are still LEOs who value marksmanship over lead-squirting."
In my long insurance career, the oddest claim I ever had was some years ago when a client came into my office, "You know that new van I just bought? (for his cleaning business). It's full of bullet holes."
Seems a guy was being chased by the Portland (OR) police who had recently made the change from revolvers to 9mm s/a. My client was stopped at a red light, the bad guy opened the door, threw my client out and took off in the now-commandeered van.
Not to worry....the spray n' pray Portland Police were on the scene. And fired (they counted) 82 shots, 16 of which hit the van, one which skipped along the pavement and embedded itself into the heel of a gas-station attendant, two hit two different parked cars, and the rest went.....well, no one was ever sure. There were no other injuries, including the bad guy (yeah, he was eventually caught....by the canine unit).
A Commander, who was also a client, told me he thought they should limit cartridge capacity to 6....that way, they'd learn to shoot. "Bring back our +P 38's," he said.
Of course, they didn't....with tragic results. But that's another story. Don't want to hi-jack this post too much!
I find it comforting that there are still LEOs who value marksmanship over lead-squirting."
In my long insurance career, the oddest claim I ever had was some years ago when a client came into my office, "You know that new van I just bought? (for his cleaning business). It's full of bullet holes."
Seems a guy was being chased by the Portland (OR) police who had recently made the change from revolvers to 9mm s/a. My client was stopped at a red light, the bad guy opened the door, threw my client out and took off in the now-commandeered van.
Not to worry....the spray n' pray Portland Police were on the scene. And fired (they counted) 82 shots, 16 of which hit the van, one which skipped along the pavement and embedded itself into the heel of a gas-station attendant, two hit two different parked cars, and the rest went.....well, no one was ever sure. There were no other injuries, including the bad guy (yeah, he was eventually caught....by the canine unit).
A Commander, who was also a client, told me he thought they should limit cartridge capacity to 6....that way, they'd learn to shoot. "Bring back our +P 38's," he said.
Of course, they didn't....with tragic results. But that's another story. Don't want to hi-jack this post too much!
Cocked & Locked
Member
A good story is not a hi-jack
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armybass
US Veteran
I am a huge old S&W M10 ect .38Spc fan. I love old service revolvers from the 40's through the 80's. BUT! The gun that started it all was my grandfather's 1941 Colt Official Police that was passed down and was the first hand gun I ever fired when I was 8 years old. I buy and sell alot by nature so lots of my old Smiths are now gone...but I still have the old Colt OP...
Wee Hooker
Member
and remember when everyone agreed that 6 rounds was enough to do any job?
riverrat38
US Veteran
"yeah, he was eventually caught....by the canine unit)."
The "canine unit" knows the importance of good accuracy and penetration!
Best,
Rick
The "canine unit" knows the importance of good accuracy and penetration!
Best,
Rick
