Rather than Arizona or Arkansas?
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Remington pump rifle rather than an AR or AK
- Thread starter Smith357
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Rather than Arizona or Arkansas?
truckemup97
Member
I picked a 760 in .270 a few months ago for $225. It's got quite a bit of honest wear, but it functions perfectly. I haven't ordered a 10 round magazine for it yet, but I plan to. Recoil seems a little more stout than it needs to be, but it isn't wearing a recoil pad yet, either.
I was looking for one in .308 for a couple of years. Saw a few that were overpriced and passed them up. Saw lots and lots of aught sixes. Finally settled for the .270 because it was cheap and a caliber I already had. Now I've seen several I could afford in .308.
I need a bigger safe. 
I was looking for one in .308 for a couple of years. Saw a few that were overpriced and passed them up. Saw lots and lots of aught sixes. Finally settled for the .270 because it was cheap and a caliber I already had. Now I've seen several I could afford in .308.
I need a bigger safe.
truckemup97
Member
One agency issued me a Marlin Model 336 in 30/30 caliber as a patrol rifle. I worked in a rural area with any backup 45min plus away. Felt well armed with this "Old Fashion" weapon.
Another rural agency me issued a Remington Model 760 .30/06.
Both rifles were accurate and dependable.
I would pick either rifle as a defense weapon today.
Jimmy
Another rural agency me issued a Remington Model 760 .30/06.
Both rifles were accurate and dependable.
I would pick either rifle as a defense weapon today.
Jimmy
In the 1960s, on orders for Alaska, I bought a 760 pump carbine (18 inch barrel) in 30-06 as a woods gun. It was superb for that, and I still have it. It mounts a scope easily. It's respectably accurate, not MOA, and stone cold reliable. The carbine kicks pretty hard, particularly with 220s (used them for moose in Alaska), but a recoil pad takes the sting out of it. A 308 would be just about as good, possibly a little more accurate, and maybe easier to find ammo for.
I shoot mainly handloads in mine, and use a small base die. I also have a Ram-Line 10 round carbon fibre magazine, that's got to be at least 15 years old. It works with no problems. Don't know what's the current availability of hi cap mags.
It has a curious characteristic that may take some getting used to: the weight of the parts is designed so that the recoil acts as primary extraction. So that after you shoot, the action is open about half an inch. If you get a round stuck chambering it, you may have a problem getting it un-stuck, but not as bad as on an AR. If you get the round in the chamber and it goes Bang, the empty will eject OK.
The gun works well with cast bullets. I got a 170 gr mould and made a bunch for practice shooting (17 grs of SR 4759). It's cheap and really gets you used to the feel of the rifle. I wouldn't hesitate to take one into a 'serious social purposes' situation. A bunch of 10 round magazines would be nice to have, and 20 round mags, which I don't think they make, would be even better.
I also have a Colt M4 carbine, and an M1a, and I'd probably take the Colt, but the 760 would get serious consideration. I have NO plans to get rid of that rifle.
I shoot mainly handloads in mine, and use a small base die. I also have a Ram-Line 10 round carbon fibre magazine, that's got to be at least 15 years old. It works with no problems. Don't know what's the current availability of hi cap mags.
It has a curious characteristic that may take some getting used to: the weight of the parts is designed so that the recoil acts as primary extraction. So that after you shoot, the action is open about half an inch. If you get a round stuck chambering it, you may have a problem getting it un-stuck, but not as bad as on an AR. If you get the round in the chamber and it goes Bang, the empty will eject OK.
The gun works well with cast bullets. I got a 170 gr mould and made a bunch for practice shooting (17 grs of SR 4759). It's cheap and really gets you used to the feel of the rifle. I wouldn't hesitate to take one into a 'serious social purposes' situation. A bunch of 10 round magazines would be nice to have, and 20 round mags, which I don't think they make, would be even better.
I also have a Colt M4 carbine, and an M1a, and I'd probably take the Colt, but the 760 would get serious consideration. I have NO plans to get rid of that rifle.
amazingflapjack
US Veteran
In my view the m-16 thing ain't just in your head, and I wouldn't want anything that shot the .223/.556 round-nothin'. viva AK-47. I have a Yugo. Flapjack.
5Wire
Member
handejector
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Sorry-
my last choice would be a pump.
Hard to use prone, IMO.
Lots of visible movement 'up front' if you are prone in the bushes.
To me, very noisy for a longer time than most actions.
Sorry again, but 06 would be way down my list.
Your apoc gun needs to be 223, 308, or 7.62x39. You know- make it eat ammo the other guy will bring to you.
Get an SKS.
my last choice would be a pump.
Hard to use prone, IMO.
Lots of visible movement 'up front' if you are prone in the bushes.
To me, very noisy for a longer time than most actions.
Sorry again, but 06 would be way down my list.
Your apoc gun needs to be 223, 308, or 7.62x39. You know- make it eat ammo the other guy will bring to you.
Get an SKS.
Ruger Mini 30 or a AK
GatorFarmer
Member
Here's a company that will modify 7400/7600 rifles with muzzle brakes, rail systems, cryo treated bbls etc Custom Remington 7400 7600 750 Rifles Accuracy Systems Gunsmith Gunsmithing
I thought that they used to offer custom 10 and possibly even 20rd mags, but I only see 5rd mags listed. Though some of the custom rifles pictured seem to have a 10rd mag in place.
I thought that they used to offer custom 10 and possibly even 20rd mags, but I only see 5rd mags listed. Though some of the custom rifles pictured seem to have a 10rd mag in place.
mg357
Absent Comrade
Have you thought about an m1 Carbine?
BearBio
Member
Think seriously about it for a minute:
Rate of fire and magazine capacity: A black rifle has the advantage here but how many adversaries are you gonna take on? 20 ? 30? 100? If they are trained military, an amateur would be lucky to survive an encounter with two or more==remember they do this every day, all day. What kind of shape are you in? Mall ninjas? Unpredictable at best. Most will "spray and pray" You will be much better off to slip away than fight most of the time. My old XO was a Ranger who had received a battlefield commission. He always told us that killing was just another tool. The job was to accomplish your task and stay alive.
Accuracy: Unless you have some National Match level rifle, the hunting rifle will likely have better accuracy and longer range. Better to shoot someone at 300 or 400 yards and slip away than take on the whole East German Army. Also, the old adage says says "beware the man with one gun because he likely knows how to use it". I have an old, beat up 300 mag that I've used since the early 70s for everything from jackrabbits and ground squirrels to steel pigs and elk at ranges above 500 yards.
Ammunition: Milsurp ammo is a pain to reload. Assuming you'll have time to reload, you'll have to remove crimps and ream primer pockets, wash brass (in case it is corrosive), clean rifle (same reason). Quality is variable and autos are fussier. Any backwoods store (nightime shopping expeditions) will have 30-06 or 270. Half the time (if foolish enough to stand and fight), you'll need 223 and they'll have AKs (or vice versa). Wanna try to lug a Dillon 550 with you?
Defensive thinking: When I first started working for the Feds (just before 9-11), we had numerous self-defense courses available to us. I also work in a national forest with a high incidence of pot plantations. And I live adjacent to a large desert area with a lot of farms (read "meth labs") Every one of the courses put situational awareness ahead of physical defense and emphasized mind set.
Think about it some more==do you really want the guy who kills you to have a good-looking rifle or do you wanna stay alive?
Use what you use best and stay outta trouble! The pumps seem like a good choice to me. So does the Garand (to me). I've had mini-14s (an expensive plinking rifle according to Bill Ruger), an AR (doesn't seem any better than the Mattell Special I was issued) and an M1A (heaver than my Garand). Shot AKs (real full auto ones) in the service. Been shot at and been shot. Surprise!; You don't fall down dead with the first shot. I could (and did) run and walk
Rate of fire and magazine capacity: A black rifle has the advantage here but how many adversaries are you gonna take on? 20 ? 30? 100? If they are trained military, an amateur would be lucky to survive an encounter with two or more==remember they do this every day, all day. What kind of shape are you in? Mall ninjas? Unpredictable at best. Most will "spray and pray" You will be much better off to slip away than fight most of the time. My old XO was a Ranger who had received a battlefield commission. He always told us that killing was just another tool. The job was to accomplish your task and stay alive.
Accuracy: Unless you have some National Match level rifle, the hunting rifle will likely have better accuracy and longer range. Better to shoot someone at 300 or 400 yards and slip away than take on the whole East German Army. Also, the old adage says says "beware the man with one gun because he likely knows how to use it". I have an old, beat up 300 mag that I've used since the early 70s for everything from jackrabbits and ground squirrels to steel pigs and elk at ranges above 500 yards.
Ammunition: Milsurp ammo is a pain to reload. Assuming you'll have time to reload, you'll have to remove crimps and ream primer pockets, wash brass (in case it is corrosive), clean rifle (same reason). Quality is variable and autos are fussier. Any backwoods store (nightime shopping expeditions) will have 30-06 or 270. Half the time (if foolish enough to stand and fight), you'll need 223 and they'll have AKs (or vice versa). Wanna try to lug a Dillon 550 with you?
Defensive thinking: When I first started working for the Feds (just before 9-11), we had numerous self-defense courses available to us. I also work in a national forest with a high incidence of pot plantations. And I live adjacent to a large desert area with a lot of farms (read "meth labs") Every one of the courses put situational awareness ahead of physical defense and emphasized mind set.
Think about it some more==do you really want the guy who kills you to have a good-looking rifle or do you wanna stay alive?
Use what you use best and stay outta trouble! The pumps seem like a good choice to me. So does the Garand (to me). I've had mini-14s (an expensive plinking rifle according to Bill Ruger), an AR (doesn't seem any better than the Mattell Special I was issued) and an M1A (heaver than my Garand). Shot AKs (real full auto ones) in the service. Been shot at and been shot. Surprise!; You don't fall down dead with the first shot. I could (and did) run and walk
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crofoot629
Absent Comrade
I find your post intriguing, strange really.
I was unaware we are any closer to the apocalypse?
You apparently already have a 30-06 of some type (bolt?), and your very limited budget gets you little more than you already have.
Besides my M1 Garand's, my only other 30-06 has iron sights as well as glass. A point others would do well to consider in a hunting or defensive rifle purchase. Does yours?
If I only had one rifle to protect myself with, I'd be happy enough with an M1 Garand. I think many people find the CMP process of acquiring a Garand overwhelming. Too bad.
A Schuster adjustable gas plug for a Garand is a whopping $20.00, allowing you to shoot your hunting 30-06 ammo.
Do you own a shotgun or handgun?
I have little use for shotguns anymore and rely on AR's, but in your situation, a Bolt 30-06, 12 Ga. Pump, and J-frame revolver might make good sense considering your limited budget.
The J-frame might seem like an odd choice. However if you only have one defensive handgun, concealability could be of great value. Ask our troops over seas. They fear small guns concealed on urban fighters because they can't immediately identify an armed enemy. Blending in can be valuable.
You apparently already have a .357?
I ask because you are willing to consider a lever gun in .357.
Pistol cartridges for defense are usually a bad choice. The velocity gained from a rifle length barrel usually makes little difference. The .357 may be the exception.
In your case a lever .357 may make sense.
Lastly a "non ban" gun like your 760/7600, Garand, or lever gun, has advantages. Unlike many people who have posted before me, I'd be happy with in iron sighted 760/7600. However it's such a small step up in protection from the Bolt Rifle you already own (?) I think a waste of money considering your budget.
Personally my go to defensive long guns are Noveske AR's (5.56) with Aimpoint Red Dots, and weapon mounted white lights. Followed by Glock 19's and J-frame pistols.
Emory
I was unaware we are any closer to the apocalypse?
You apparently already have a 30-06 of some type (bolt?), and your very limited budget gets you little more than you already have.
Besides my M1 Garand's, my only other 30-06 has iron sights as well as glass. A point others would do well to consider in a hunting or defensive rifle purchase. Does yours?
If I only had one rifle to protect myself with, I'd be happy enough with an M1 Garand. I think many people find the CMP process of acquiring a Garand overwhelming. Too bad.
A Schuster adjustable gas plug for a Garand is a whopping $20.00, allowing you to shoot your hunting 30-06 ammo.
Do you own a shotgun or handgun?
I have little use for shotguns anymore and rely on AR's, but in your situation, a Bolt 30-06, 12 Ga. Pump, and J-frame revolver might make good sense considering your limited budget.
The J-frame might seem like an odd choice. However if you only have one defensive handgun, concealability could be of great value. Ask our troops over seas. They fear small guns concealed on urban fighters because they can't immediately identify an armed enemy. Blending in can be valuable.
You apparently already have a .357?
I ask because you are willing to consider a lever gun in .357.
Pistol cartridges for defense are usually a bad choice. The velocity gained from a rifle length barrel usually makes little difference. The .357 may be the exception.
In your case a lever .357 may make sense.
Lastly a "non ban" gun like your 760/7600, Garand, or lever gun, has advantages. Unlike many people who have posted before me, I'd be happy with in iron sighted 760/7600. However it's such a small step up in protection from the Bolt Rifle you already own (?) I think a waste of money considering your budget.
Personally my go to defensive long guns are Noveske AR's (5.56) with Aimpoint Red Dots, and weapon mounted white lights. Followed by Glock 19's and J-frame pistols.
Emory
Here's a picture of my 760 carbine. The Weaver K 2.5 I put on in Alaska. I used Redfield mounts because at that time they incorporated a pop-up peep sight in the mount base in case the scope was disabled; a nice backup feature, although I never had to use it. The newly installed buttstock doesn't have a recoil pad yet. Also pictured is the 10 round Ram Line magazine.
One feature may cause trouble: the light plastic dust cover for the ejection port that reciprocates with the bolt. One of its functions is to retain the big, fat cam pin that pivots the bolt head in and out of engagement with the locking lugs. If that dust cover fractures, the pin will usually fall out of the bolt rendering the rifle inoperable. It never fractured for me, even in Alaska's cold, but I have a spare, just in case. It's not easy to replace.
One feature may cause trouble: the light plastic dust cover for the ejection port that reciprocates with the bolt. One of its functions is to retain the big, fat cam pin that pivots the bolt head in and out of engagement with the locking lugs. If that dust cover fractures, the pin will usually fall out of the bolt rendering the rifle inoperable. It never fractured for me, even in Alaska's cold, but I have a spare, just in case. It's not easy to replace.
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Smith357
US Veteran
Yeah I'm considering one of those too, it's just hard to stomach $300 for a rifle that I bought 15 years ago for $69. But I am familiar with their workings. Enough to modify the bolt so I can use 30 round detachables without have to hold the bolt back.
Yes, ammo availability is a big limiting issue for the M1 Carbine. I have what I call the "Wallmart Rule" I won't buy a gun that uses ammo that can't be found at Wallmart or any back woods bait store.
Hopefully just one, the pack leader.
All I need is combat accuracy 2-4 MOA, the extended range and power to shoot through some objects is one thing very appealing about the .30-06.
The milsurp ammo would not get reloaded and really just be a backup. The reloading gear will let me load up a couple thousand rounds to sore in ammo cans. It's cheaper to make them than to buy them. I have about 2000 .38s just sitting in a can waiting to be shot and enough stuff to make 4-5000 more if need be. I could have the same amount of 06 built up in a couple of months. I also have a .30 caliber mold for cast 06 loads if .30 caliber bullets become hard to get as they were just last year.
I think like a USMC ground pounder. OK may like an old retired grunt, hit and run, and hole up and hide. I used to think I could just out range any adversary by playing joe sniper with my hunting rifle, but I'm getting old and live in an urban landscape.
I want the guy who kills me to die from the wounds I gave him, hopefully a slow and very painful death.
One cay closer than yesterday.
It's just I'm taking all these radical yahoos that are calling for a revolution at their word. Call me crazy if you want, but luck favors the prepared.
A Winchester M70
Iron sights are a must have on any hunting or defensive rifle, and yes my M70 has iron sights. I don't trust glass or batteries in the woods.
Hmm.... I must look into one of these devices. It would make the Garand a real possibility
I have a few revolvers, my 4" 586 would be my combat magnum. No shotgun, I really don't have a use for one either, since I quit playing clay games I sold my O/U to pay bills.
You all are bringing up some valid points to get me thinking, keep up the good work.
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Snapping Twig
Member
I have most of the bases covered apparently.
1978 vintage Marlin 1894 44.
1955 Remington 740 30-06.
1989 Ruger Mini 30 with the .308 bore.
Browning A 500 12ga semi auto.
1987 W. German Sig P220.
DW CBOB 1911
Numerous other options.
I like the Remington 740 for the non EBR look that it has with the M1 Garrand capability it possesses. Mine is scoped and set up (LOP) with a Pachmayer Decelerator butt pad and a sling + a boat load of extra magazines. Very accurate and it was LNIB when I got it. If the rails wear out, it will be a long way down the road.
The 1894 is awesome. Lobs a fat, heavy boolit accurately out to 100 yards. Probably further, but that's as far as I've shot it so far. Holds 9 in the magazine when using 265g cast.
The Mini 30 is another. I load a 150g NBT to 2100fps. Lots of hard hitting smashum downrange. Accurate too. I re torqued the gas block and had a trigger job (low cost accurizing that works). Scoped with a 3x9 Leupold. Not a rifle to get in front of. I once hit a running pig at 460 yards (laser ranged) and cartwheeled it with this rifle.
As to handguns and shotguns, a 44 on the hip works for me, but the 1911 is pretty slick. Not into shotguns, need to be too close to use them.
Which brings me to this point. Hunting rifles. Here's where I would dwell.
I have numerous options, but I would probably rely on my Rem 700 chambered in 6.5-06. That rifle is an outright sniper platform. You can really reach out and touch things with a 6.5/.264 boolit. When it gets there - lookout! Europe recognizes the value of this caliber, but it is slow on the uptake here in the States. I go with what works and it does.
30-06 shoots more like a rainbow, but if you know your rifle, it's deadly indeed.
Of course, if you find yourself in the midst of difficulty and the weasels are rapidly closing in, my solution is a Marlin GBL 45-70 with a Leupold 2.5x Scout scope. Should make an impression on a foe, vest or not with a 420g cast boolit skipping along @ 1800fps. You could get outta Dodge pretty good that way.
Back on subject.
The Remington or the Mini would be an excellent choice for a non intimidating SHTF kind of rifle. Even the 1894 would work, but you have to turn it sideways to work the action if you're prone.
1978 vintage Marlin 1894 44.
1955 Remington 740 30-06.
1989 Ruger Mini 30 with the .308 bore.
Browning A 500 12ga semi auto.
1987 W. German Sig P220.
DW CBOB 1911
Numerous other options.
I like the Remington 740 for the non EBR look that it has with the M1 Garrand capability it possesses. Mine is scoped and set up (LOP) with a Pachmayer Decelerator butt pad and a sling + a boat load of extra magazines. Very accurate and it was LNIB when I got it. If the rails wear out, it will be a long way down the road.
The 1894 is awesome. Lobs a fat, heavy boolit accurately out to 100 yards. Probably further, but that's as far as I've shot it so far. Holds 9 in the magazine when using 265g cast.
The Mini 30 is another. I load a 150g NBT to 2100fps. Lots of hard hitting smashum downrange. Accurate too. I re torqued the gas block and had a trigger job (low cost accurizing that works). Scoped with a 3x9 Leupold. Not a rifle to get in front of. I once hit a running pig at 460 yards (laser ranged) and cartwheeled it with this rifle.
As to handguns and shotguns, a 44 on the hip works for me, but the 1911 is pretty slick. Not into shotguns, need to be too close to use them.
Which brings me to this point. Hunting rifles. Here's where I would dwell.
I have numerous options, but I would probably rely on my Rem 700 chambered in 6.5-06. That rifle is an outright sniper platform. You can really reach out and touch things with a 6.5/.264 boolit. When it gets there - lookout! Europe recognizes the value of this caliber, but it is slow on the uptake here in the States. I go with what works and it does.
30-06 shoots more like a rainbow, but if you know your rifle, it's deadly indeed.
Of course, if you find yourself in the midst of difficulty and the weasels are rapidly closing in, my solution is a Marlin GBL 45-70 with a Leupold 2.5x Scout scope. Should make an impression on a foe, vest or not with a 420g cast boolit skipping along @ 1800fps. You could get outta Dodge pretty good that way.
Back on subject.
The Remington or the Mini would be an excellent choice for a non intimidating SHTF kind of rifle. Even the 1894 would work, but you have to turn it sideways to work the action if you're prone.
Fishslayer
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
"Defensive" to me means <100 yards. I have an early (.308 bore) Mini-30 & a Norinco SKS for this. Since we're legally limited to 10 round mags I like the SKS better. Even with the stock sights the SKS kicks the Mini's behind accuracy wise and AIM Surplus has a special on milsurp Yugo steel free x39 on stripper clips. They're almost as fast to reload as detachable mags. The strippers don't cost $35 a pop either. At .20 a round I don't really feel a need to reload it (Though I do have a bunch of boxer type x39 brass stashed).
When I get back to work I'll be looking for a .308 bolt gun for keeping those zombies at a greater distance.
At .20 a round I don't really feel a need to reload it (Though I do have a bunch of boxer type x39 brass stashed).When I get back to work I'll be looking for a .308 bolt gun for keeping those zombies at a greater distance.
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cowart
US Veteran
Its highly unlikely that you will be able to buy "cases of cheap mil-surp ammo" in 30-06, depending on your definition of "cheap". It would be much more likely if you stuck to .308 instead.
I also recall that Mel Tappan tested the Remington pumps back in the day and found that they did not handle protracted firing very well at all.
I also recall that Mel Tappan tested the Remington pumps back in the day and found that they did not handle protracted firing very well at all.
Andy Griffith
Member
I'll second the choice of a lever gun in .30-30.
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