Remington "Targetmaster" 148WC "index" 6138

[AJ]

I sacrificed a round today to measure the powder.
Looks like the extrusion was .035"dia and chopped about .004" thick, medium gray with a dark greenish cast, and has some rounding and "potato chip" to the shape.
None of the powders I looked at from my own collection had that color and few had that size.
Red Dot: much larger, more wrinkled
Titegroup: has no regular shape or size
2400: smaller and longer flakes, looks a lot like 3N37
PB: larger and very porous (hence the name)
Power Pistol: lighter color and flatter, but the same size
700X: much larger flake diameter but the same sheen.
Blue Dot: much larger diameter, the same level of potato chipping.
W571: very irregular flakes, some larger, some smaller.
N350: much longer, cylinders not flakes
3N37: smaller diameter and longer
Tragically, I don't have and Bullseye on the shelf just now to compare.

What was the weight?

I just bought 1000 HBWC's for $100.00.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

I would guess factory wadcutters are loaded with something similar to Bullseye.

 

[AJ]

I would guess factory wadcutters are loaded with something similar to Bullseye.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[teletech]

What was the weight?

I just bought 1000 HBWC's for $100.00.

Very embarrassingly, in all the measuring of the grains under the microscope, I got distracted and managed to elbow half the charge onto the floor. I'll have to grit my teeth and cut open another one the get the charge weight.

I'm hoping that with careful measurement I'll be able to figure out how Remington sized, seated, and crimped the cases. The ones I've looked at have more irregularity in the finished end of the case mouth than I'd expect for a precision cartridge, so in that regard at least, I should be able to manage better than factory uniformity.

 

[AJ]

Very embarrassingly, in all the measuring of the grains under the microscope, I got distracted and managed to elbow half the charge onto the floor. I'll have to grit my teeth and cut open another one the get the charge weight.

I'm hoping that with careful measurement I'll be able to figure out how Remington sized, seated, and crimped the cases. The ones I've looked at have more irregularity in the finished end of the case mouth than I'd expect for a precision cartridge, so in that regard at least, I should be able to manage better than factory uniformity.

Do you know the velocity?

 

[Drm50]

I got a 100pk of CCI Blazer .38 WCs couple months back. Anxious to see how they do, aluminum cased. Saving to fire on indoor range where you can’t recover brass.
Got several thousand WCs loaded, DEWC , Button Nose & HBWC all with 2.5 gr Bullseye. The Button Nose is my second favorite because have gang mold for them. Casting HBWCs in Lyman single cavity mold is like trying to survive on black walnuts. Eventually you will succumb from starvation when you can’t crack them faster than you eat them.

 

[AJ]

I got a 100pk of CCI Blazer .38 WCs couple months back. Anxious to see how they do, aluminum cased. Saving to fire on indoor range where you can’t recover brass.
Got several thousand WCs loaded, DEWC , Button Nose & HBWC all with 2.5 gr Bullseye. The Button Nose is my second favorite because have gang mold for them. Casting HBWCs in Lyman single cavity mold is like trying to survive on black walnuts. Eventually you will succumb from starvation when you can’t crack them faster than you eat them.

I have two and six cavity molds for DEWC's and BNWC's. May look for a HBWC mold.

 

[Skeet 028]

They were swaged bullets if I remember...Also there were two factory loads...one marked as 146 gr...later 148gr. bullets looked the same to me. I have boxes of both. Remington ballistician told me originally they possibly used Bullseye, a powder called P-5...later P-5066 and also HiSkor...not 700X until possibly later. I believe 700X was changed in the 70s to burn a little faster...prior to that it was loaded or used to reload 20 and 28 ga as well as 12...so it may have been used in target 38s He even gave me a can of Dupont bulk smokeless and some loading data for other rounds as well as shotgun. Odd greenish colored stuff

 

[AJ]

They were swaged bullets if I remember...Also there were two factory loads...one marked as 146 gr...later 148gr. bullets looked the same to me. I have boxes of both. Remington ballistician told me originally they possibly used Bullseye, a powder called P-5...later P-5066 and also HiSkor...not 700X until possibly later. I believe 700X was changed in the 70s to burn a little faster...prior to that it was loaded or used to reload 20 and 28 ga as well as 12...so it may have been used in target 38s He even gave me a can of Dupont bulk smokeless and some loading data for other rounds as well as shotgun. Odd greenish colored stuff

Most of the HBWC's are swaged. There are casting molds though Hollow base molds - MP-molds

 

[Nevada Ed]

In all my years of reloading, the only "Green" powder that I ever saw was
from a old 12 Ga. shell that my father brought back from a Alascan Moose hunt, that they used to shoot water fowl with.

The Guide gave them a SxS shot gun and a box of shells, and they found out later, that only half of them would fit ito the chambers.

Here is a old picture that I took of the powder. Sorry for the poor quality of the picture.

 

[teletech]

I opened up another, 2.6 grains is the answer.
Running it over the chrono is the next step I guess.

 

[AJ]

I opened up another, 2.6 grains is the answer.
Running it over the chrono is the next step I guess.

I have a program called Quickload on my computer. A 148 grain WC with 2.6 grains of Bullseye in a 5 inch barrel pistol should be 574 FPS. Change the powder to W231 and the velocity is 553 FPS.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

I've been loading my .38 wadcutters with 700X for several years simply because someone gave me several pounds of it and it works well. When thar runs out I'll go to Titegroup or AA5, because that's what I have.

 

[gwpercle]

Good article titled “New Powders for 38 Special” in February 2024 Shooting Times magazine. Using 7” S&W 686 Plus to test 148gr WC bullets from Acme, Hornady, Remington and Zero. Best 20 shot group was 1.01” at 25 yards with Remington 148 HBWC, 2.7gr of W244 powder and Federal 100 primers. 2.7gr of Bullseye powder yielded a 20 shot group of 1.19” with Remington bullet. The Remington 148gr HBWC shot best over all powder loads.

I have shot a lot of Bullseye and PPC with the 148gr HBWC and consider Remington to be the gold standard. I load the 148 HBWC with 2.8gr of Bullseye powder and Federal 100 primers.

Awesome Article ... Great Read !!!
I'm taking my Cabela's Gift Cards , going to see if I can find some of that W244 powder ... never tried this one ...
If I can't find W244 , I'll look for WST and / or Sport Pistol ... I've never tried any of these ...
Maybe one Could Be a real Winner!
I'm going to keep this article with my Reloading Manuals ...
I load and shoot a lot of 38 special these days !
This article was a real eye opener for me .
Gary

 

[AJ]

Good article titled “New Powders for 38 Special” in February 2024 Shooting Times magazine. Using 7” S&W 686 Plus to test 148gr WC bullets from Acme, Hornady, Remington and Zero. Best 20 shot group was 1.01” at 25 yards with Remington 148 HBWC, 2.7gr of W244 powder and Federal 100 primers. 2.7gr of Bullseye powder yielded a 20 shot group of 1.19” with Remington bullet. The Remington 148gr HBWC shot best over all powder loads.

I have shot a lot of Bullseye and PPC with the 148gr HBWC and consider Remington to be the gold standard. I load the 148 HBWC with 2.8gr of Bullseye powder and Federal 100 primers.

Awesome Article ... Great Read !!!
I'm taking my Cabela's Gift Cards , going to see if I can find some of that W244 powder ... never tried this one ...
If I can't find W244 , I'll look for WST and / or Sport Pistol ... I've never tried any of these ...
Maybe one Could Be a real Winner!
I'm going to keep this article with my Reloading Manuals ...
I load and shoot a lot of 38 special these days !
This article was a real eye opener for me .
Gary

Read the article a while back. If you are using a 686 it is not a bad article. I don't have one so filed it away to give to friends to read. Tailor your ammo to your guns. I have four guns that will shoot .38 Special, a S&W 52, a Colt M1911 Custom, a S&W K Frame PPC by Belhert and a S&W 27-2 all seem to shoot 2.8 grains of Bullseye the best of all the loads I have tried. Gave my pound of 244 to a friend for a pound of Lil Gun.

 

[Greyman50]

Use 2.8 grns of bullseye under 148 grn HBWC for Colt Mid Range and my Mdl. 19 target. Have a RCBS crimping die made for wad cutters.

 

[glenwolde]

I hadn't seen any wadcutters for sale for quite a while. A few days ago my phone dinged at 5:00 AM. It was an "in-stock" alert that I had forgotten I had signed up for with Precision Delta. I wandered around in the dark looking for my wallet. Stubbed my toe.

I have a partial can of Bullseye, but I think I'll try using up my 700-X on them. Well, I have three pounds of 700-X so I'll have to order a lot more bullets to use it up. Looks like about 3,000 loads per pound. Yowza.

 

[AJ]

I hadn't seen any wadcutters for sale for quite a while. A few days ago my phone dinged at 5:00 AM. It was an "in-stock" alert that I had forgotten I had signed up for with Precision Delta. I wandered around in the dark looking for my wallet. Stubbed my toe.

I have a partial can of Bullseye, but I think I'll try using up my 700-X on them. Well, I have three pounds of 700-X so I'll have to order a lot more bullets to use it up. Looks like about 3,000 loads per pound. Yowza.

DEWC or HBWC?

 

[cmj8591]

It is unlikely that you will be able to tell what that powder is by looking at it. Ammo manufacturers generally don't use canister grade powder like what is available for reloaders. They form a set of parameters, speed and pressure, for the ammo that they are making then they tailor the powder to achieve their goal. You might have powder that looks like Bullseye but it may have a completely different burn rate. Stick with the 2.8 grain Bullseye load and you won't go wrong.

 

[glenwolde]

DEWC or HBWC?

HBWC. I've never used Precision Delta before but they look good. I have a bunch of Remington Wadcutter brass I never use because it's so thin and sometimes I have bullet tension problems with it. I keep it segregated. I'm going to use that brass with these.