Removed internal lock from 649 - concerns

[model 49 rick]

I have been putting off a project for a few years, and decided to start it this morning. I read about "the plug" and saw a picture on a Centennial that looked really nice. Decided to remove the internal lock from my .357 model 649 because the idea of the lock offends me. No problems with the actual removal, and the action of the gun seems to work fine upon reassembly. Two worries - 1) When I tapped the sideplate free a part fell out (hammer block according to the parts list for the 649 on the smith & wesson website). I found an image on the interwebs that showed how this part is oriented for proper reassembly and I put it in that way. With the gun reassembled there is a rattle, and I'm almost certain it is this hammer block. 2) The "plug" is to plug the hole left by the part of the lock the key fits into. When you remove the little piece that actually has the word "locked" stamped in it, that exposes another small hole that little piece was fitted into. In the picture of the Centennial I saw with the "plug" that small hole was not evident.

Has anyone else done the lock-ectomy on a 649? Are there "plug" solutions for the small hole too? Did I re-install the hammer block incorrectly?

This project does not end with lock removal for me. I am thinking of having the gun ported, and sending it to a guy who blues stainless steel guns to make it into what I really want. I intend to void the warranty in multiple ways. I want the end product to work well and look right. "Plugs" would be fine for what I intend, but if there is no plug for the little hole I would consider having the holes welded up. Since I work with top notch welding professionals this is an option.

Has anyone else even heard of someone "fixing" the gaping hole problem in this way?

Thank you for any feedback you can give me.

 

[Austerity]

Sorry, I know someone else is going to say it so I'll just say it.

Why not just get a blued gun that you actually want that does not have a lock and get it ported?

On the subject of the lock, I left everything intact and ground down the nub on the flag (the part that came up and said locked) so it had no way to engage the hammer. I then sanded and polished the side of the flag, everything is intact and looks stock but the lock is not capable of locking anything. If you ever sell the gun you can simply put a new flag in and it's back to original.

Just my $0.02

 

[scooter123]

If you take the time to shake them you'll find the hammer block rattles on every single S&W revolver produced with this part. You've only noticed it now because you were looking for it.

As for your "extra" hole, I would think that a bit of drill rod of the correct diameter, cut to length, blued and pressed in place would provide an easy solution. However, I'd put some readers on and confirm that "extra hole" already isn't filled with a pin. I looked at the 649 on S&W's site and that hole to the rear of the lock appears to be a feature of the Bodyguard that doesn't have anything to do with the lock, so I'd be inclined to leave it alone.

 

[David Sinko]

I removed the lock from my 627 and for a while now it has been living with that large hole in the frame. I have aspirations of plugging it by installing a stainless steel screw flush with the frame. I don't care if I see a screw head as long as it's flush and the hole is closed.

Rather than weld the hole, you can install a screw and have it milled flush with the sideplate. I imagine this is much cheaper than welding and there is no risk to the frame from heat damage. A forum member has done this and posted a pic complete with instructions. I wish I could find it for reference.

Dave Sinko

 

[model 49 rick]

Austerity,

The model 49 was discontinued years ago, and was never chambered for .357 mag. S&W doesn't make a blued gun that is what I want anymore. IMHO all their newer guns are ugly. Just looked through their catalog yesterday. Of course, I only want a S&W.

Scooter,

Thank you - I think you're right about the rattle, and I like the drill rod idea. You are incorrect about the little hole being an unrelated feature. The internal lock piece that actually has the word "locked" stamped onto it has a little nub that fits into the small hole, and pivots on that nub when the key is turned in the lock. You wouldn't see that part unless you had the side plate off and the hammer assembly removed for the purpose of removing all the parts of the lock.

David,

Thank you - but I'm not sure about a threaded insert. The wall of the frame is kinda thin in my opinion. I do not believe I could thread more than a couple of threads. Then if I countersink just enough so that any screw I put in there stops against the countersink, I don't see how my screw is holding on much more than a single thread. I don't like it.

The gentleman you mention talks about threading straight through with no countersink and using glue to secure into a few threads. Don't like that much either.

It's a dilemna. You have a point about the heat from welding - it's actually more of a problem on a small hole. Fortunately, since the work would be done by my buddies at work, it would be free. These are experts with 30 plus years welding stainless. Small work doesn't intimidate these people either. It could be done, and done well. I'm just hoping to not have to go to that extreme. The "plug" for the big hole, and a press fit piece of drill rod could be the best plan.

 

[RGMoore]

The small hole is covered by the cylinder release. Once you put the gun back together you can't see it.

 

[Austerity]

Ok, well I see why you want to do what you want to it then, but why not just buy the plug that is made for the hole? Why not simply remove the nub from the flag and reinstall all the parts? No hole, everything looks original, but the lock is not capable of locking anything.

 

[Austerity]

Sorry, excuse my ignorance but looking at the parts breakdown of bodyguard framed j frames, the lock cylinder turns the internal flag which locks the hammer in place, the same as my exposed hammer M&P 360 and a Centennial.

So why did you say:

The internal lock piece that actually has the word "locked" stamped onto it has a little nub that fits into the small hole

Yes, it has a small nub that fits into the frame, but the larger nub on the other side is what actually "locks" the hammer in place preventing the trigger or hammer from moving.

Correct me here if I am wrong someone, please.

 

[model 49 rick]

Austerity,

I was making a point to scooter about how the small hole is definitely connected to the lock mechanism, not about how it works. You are definitely correct that the larger nub on the inside of the "flag" actually locks the action.

RGmoore is definitely not correct that the cylinder release covers the small hole (at least as far as the 649 goes). I have put my gun back together, and the small hole is way aft of the cylinder release, and clearly visible going all the way through the frame of the gun.

I have decided to buy the "plug". It seems the best alternative. I can plug the small hole with a piece of drill rod pretty easily too, and if it looks a tad different from the blue job - so what.

The thing about removing all the parts of the lock is a purist thing for me. The very concept of the lock is offensive to me, and I wanted to purge the gun of the whole unclean mess.

My thanks to everyone who posted. This kind of discourse helps me make up my mind about things.

 

[Ranger98]

Contact forum member "Bullseye Smith" who makes a plug designed to cover the locking hole.
His Link http://smith-wessonforum.com/accessories-misc-sale-trade/143299-fs-plug.html

 

[shooter1911]

When I got my 340PD (the only revo I have with an IL) I immediately ground off the nub on the flag to disable the IL. After several years of looking at the ugly lock hole I ordered the plug from Bullseye Smith, and removed all the IL parts, and put it back together. All was well, but I didn't like the extra hole you discussed so I took the gun apart again and re-installed the flag with the missing nub. The pin on the flag is the part that fits in the unsightly hole. As you can see from the picture, it is now perfect. It is fully tested with .357 ammo and shoots fine.

The only bad news is I don't have a good flag to replace if I need to send the gun back to S&W for warranty. Hopefully I can find one to buy or they will be forgiving if this happens.

 

[1 old 0311]

Hi,

If someone is telling you they can blue a stainless gun you probably want to stay away. Both S&W, and Fords will tell you it CAN'T be done. Smith won't try but Fords has a process where it is actually a black finish they put on it.

 

[model 49 rick]

Smith & Wesson does it themselves, or they have done it in the past. There is a 686 model, with a S&W product code that is a blued stainless revolver. They made them in the late eighties, and they are not common, but they exist.

Also, I have seen examples of the work of the stainless bluing specialist I intend to use, and I can tell you that you have been steered wrong by whoever tells you that S&W or this other company say it doesn't work. It works. The guy's name is George Roghaar. He has a website that you can find by searching his name on your browser.

 

[Maximumbob54]

Gray RTV fills the hole nicely. I add a bit to the back of the plug to make sure it all stays in place.