Resetting Elevator Trim on Touch & Go

[Retired W4]

Recently there have been a couple threads on aircraft accidents that got me thinking about student pilots in light airplanes. Check lists are written in blood, but a common training maneuver, the Touch and Go, happens so quickly that check list items are done from memory. Probably the most important item is setting elevator trim from a landing setting to a take off setting. This is what happens when the trim is not reset.

Photos are from an official NTSB investigation. Note: In the cockpit photo the lack of what is referred to as Survivable Living Space.

My intention is not to ruin anyone's day, but to give a gentle reminder to those who engage in these activities.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The multi faceted, multi dimensional thought processes of a fixed wing or helicopter pilot have always amazed me!

I look at air vehicles as something like a taxi, I get in and pay someone else to get me where I need to be, preferably alive!

Ivan

 

[old tanker]

Resetting the trim is far more important in larger airplanes. Smaller aircraft the pilot should be able to overpower the pitch control enough to establish the proper attitude and then trim off the excessive forces.

The picture look like there not much left of a Piper Cherokee. Even with a runaway electric trim you'd think the pilot could get the nose down enough to prevent the stall.

Like most accidents, it was but one link in the chain that led to disaster. I'd like to know more.

 

[hobby-gunsmith]

resetting elevator trim on touch & G0

just as Old Tanker stated, it is more prevalent on larger aircraft. I always instilled my student pilots as for a last checklist, the Acronym for GUMPS is Gas-undercarriage-mixture-props-seat belt. As always, the aircraft's checklist must be read as a to do list for landing. As, with more advance aircraft, the check list is longer than a small single engine aircraft but still must be adhered to completing the list.

Nick

 

[Sistema1927]

Speaking of trim, when I was a student pilot the rental C-172 was notorious in not being able to trim out all control pressures. That poor bird had been abused so much in years past that there was no way that you were ever going to be able to fly that plane hands off.

While still a student, I purchased a clean 1961 C-172B that came with complete maintenance logs since new. The original owner was the Boeing flying club, and page after page contained entries with stamps from Boeing A&Ps. The 2nd owner was a gentleman who was meticulous on maintenance, and the 3rd owner was me.

One of the first things that I noticed was the ease in trimming that plane. A few touches of the trim wheel, and in calm air I could fly great distances with no hands on the yoke. It was certainly a revelation to me, something that I never would have imagined possible flying the rental crate.

 

[Bekeart]

Remember CARB HEAT ...

Remember CARB HEAT ..

Long long ago when I was taking lessons and building hours with TOL I NEGLECTED to turn Carb Heat OFF on take off.

Got off run way with no problems, might have been further down but did not notice it.

Wondered WHY it was taking so long (as in FAR) to get to pattern altitude.
Was over a mile further out.
Finally discovered my error when on Downwind leg when I reached to set Carb Heat.

bekeart

 

[delcrossv]

And why didn't the pilot set the trim to zero for touch and go's?

Never flown a plane with electric trim tabs, but IMO trimming is for level flight, not for flying the airplane.

At most it's flaps on , touch, flaps off, go. Who messes with trim during a maneuver like a touch and go ?

???

 

[Bekeart]

At most it's flaps on , touch, flaps off, go. Who messes with trim during a maneuver like a touch and go ????

I was not using flaps on the old Cessna 150 with trim wheel.
Had four 5200 feet runways.
Preset trim for level flight prior to take off.
Reset trim before turning from downwind - did not require any pressure on wheel.
My instructor approved this method.

 

[LVSteve]

And why didn't the pilot set the trim to zero for touch and go's?

Never flown a plane with electric trim tabs, but IMO trimming is for level flight, not for flying the airplane.

At most it's flaps on , touch, flaps off, go. Who messes with trim during a maneuver like a touch and go ?

???

I'm not a pilot, and I wondered the same thing. Is it a trick to land the aircraft just using the throttle with minimal control input?

 

[Jessie]

The throttle is basically controlling the descent path but won't help with gusts or crosswinds. A light plane is not going to stay stabilized enough to only use the throttle unless it's a dead calm day.
On larger aircraft you're stabilized during the entire descent on final and basically only using the throttle for speed and descent control. The flight controls still play an important roll for corrections though.

 

[delcrossv]

I was not using flaps on the old Cessna 150 with trim wheel.
Had four 5200 feet runways.
...

Nice! Usually had to drop in over trees here and a short strip.

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Now there is a catchy tune to remind new pilots the same thing my instructor pounded into my head, "You Can Always Go Around":

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqFTD-Bqwl8[/ame]

 

[Telecaster]

Trim reset isn't quite as vital as those accident pictures might suggest, especially in a small GA airplane. There had to have been a lot of other things going on for the plane to get that crumpled up. Power loss after takeoff, pitching for airspeed must be done, period; forget about trim. Just push or pull till you're above stall.

 

[Jessie]

Or in this case, back on the ground with throttle closed

 

[delcrossv]

Now there is a catchy tune to remind new pilots the same thing my instructor pounded into my head, "You Can Always Go Around":

AMEN!

 

[Absalom]

I was not using flaps on the old Cessna 150 with trim wheel.
Had four 5200 feet runways.
Preset trim for level flight prior to take off.
Reset trim before turning from downwind - did not require any pressure on wheel.
My instructor approved this method.

Regarding use of the trim wheel, this is actually the standard method that I and every pilot I know who learned on the 150/152 was taught. Even with flaps.

At the end of downwind you pull the power back, slow to approach speed, trim pressure away, and turn base. Then you do or don't add flaps as desired. Since a plane trims to speed, no more trim changes necessary.

Since most of the crates were decades old, zero trim wasn't exactly zero on any of them our outfit had for rent and each had a sharpie mark where "neutral" trim was. You made sure that was set for take-off.

 

[Absalom]

And just for fun:

A gem from the Department of "Why on Earth would somebody post something this embarrassing on Youtube?"

Nobody got hurt. Here a go-around might have been a good idea. Trim wasn't the problem.

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c5nBt_ogi7U[/ame]

 

[Jessie]

Did he shut off the fuel after crash? No Did he shutoff the ignition/battery switch after crash? No. But he DID turn around and shut off the camera!
Should be the first item on all emergency landing checklists, right?

PS. I especially liked when the plane fell back down on its tail. That was funny

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

To me it looked like a bad approach, plus lots of yoke movement that might suggest a strong crosswind. He looked too low to me from the beginning, then let the plane drift left of the center of the runway without any correction. Got a laugh at the first thing he did was turn off the camera.

 

[Sistema1927]

They say that confession is good for the soul.

I was commuting regularly in my C-172B from KAEG to KSAF, and kept a little Mazda at the airport in Santa Fe. I didn't save any time or money doing so, but I did save my sanity in those days.

My parents were full time RVing at the time, and visited us in Albuquerque. I suggested that Dad and I take a flight up to Santa Fe and get lunch. He, being an old paratrooper, asked me if I was going to give him a parachute.

All went well, good calm flight, but on the downwind the tower at Santa Fe asked if I could expedite landing due to incoming jet traffic. I agreed, shortened things up, but was looking at the numbers when I turned final. I did everything possible to get rid of altitude without picking up airspeed, but still hit the runway way too hot. For the 1st and only time I bounced that Cessna right into orbit. I soon set-up for the go around, climbed out at Vy, and re-established in the pattern. In retrospect, I should have declined the expedite and completed a 180 away from the pattern. Second attempt at landing was textbook with stall horn giving a short chirp when the mains touched down.

Dad didn't say a word throughout the entire experience, but as we taxied to parking I apologized for the bounce. He told me that he thought that I was showing off! I reassured him that the last thing i wanted to do was bounce the plane back into the air.

Fortunately, the B model had spring steel main gear which absorbed the bounce without damage, and manual Johnson bar flaps that allowed me to recover without waiting for the whine-whine-whine of electric flaps.

Lunch off airport was good, and the flight back to Double Eagle was uneventful.