Resetting Elevator Trim on Touch & Go

[WuzzFuzz]

I will say this about touch and goes, I never did do a check ride that we did touch and goes. A pilot is taught, or should be taught to use his check list before take off, and after he has exited the runway to use a after landing check list...

That may add about ten minutes total to the whole check ride per say.

But after each of the demonstrated take offs, each of the demonstrated landings will always be to a demonstrated stop, and taxi back for the next type of take off, and the next type of demonstrated landing...

Because of the touch and go and trying to do memory items, that is the fasted way for a person to forget a critical item...

More than one person has raised the landing gear after landing, instead of the flaps. The flaps are to be raised after exiting the runway and are safely stopped on the taxiway..because they were used to doing the raise the flaps and gear for the next go around

A airliner can do multiple things because there are two in the cockpit, one calling out, required items, such as flaps set, trim set, then as the captain calls out "set power". and so forth...

Touch and goes might add to the take off and landings, but only full stop landings count for the log book entry.

FAA examiner retired as well as...


WuzzFuzz

 

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Very well said. The closest I came to having an accident soon after I soloed was during a touch and go. After that I always taxied back, check list in hand.

 

[llowry61]

I see what you're saying but it was instilled in me in a short time that runway behind you is wasted runway. I USED to do intersection takeoffs but trained myself not to after a while.

Funny that you mention that, I trained at Rickenabacker AFB which had dual runways that were close to 12k feet long.

They had a cable at 3k feet that they used to train carrier landings back in the day.

For a long time it was SOP for the flight school students to back taxi to the cable then take off from there. I was doing a pre check ride with a new instructor and requested the back taxi, which was cleared by the tower controller.

The new instructor asked me why on earth I would do that. I told him the hobs was running and myself and other students didn't want to waste money driving around an airfield.

He asked me how I would feel dumping the aircraft in a field with 9k feet of runway behind me.

I never thought about it, but he had a point. I stopped doing it after that and spent the 5 minutes to taxi to the approach end of the runway.

A true story by the way - my wife and I were landing at RIK after the 100 dollar hamburger and the controller cleared me to land. His next transmission was for Blue Angle flight leader to hold in position. I moseyed on down and landed while the Blue Angels held - it was awesome to watch them smoke outta there once I hit the taxi way. I have to admit I hit the throttle and lifted the nose off the ground in salute to them. The controller advised cherokee 626 to slow it down.

You never knew what you were going to get flyin in and out of there. Wake turbulance scared me to death.

 

[Absalom]

Stop-and-gos are especially useful for developing good habits if your home field where you learn and practice most has long and wide runways that give you all the space in the world.

I've watched many casual pilots get sloppy about the touchdown point if they are used to a runway where any touchdown in the first two-thirds leaves you plenty remaining to roll out. If you're used to 150' by 5000' plus, and then have to put it into a 40' by 1500' field, things can get interesting quickly.

Having learned to manage your landings by some reference to where you want to be done helps greatly. Obviously, checking the chart or whatever electronic gizmo replaces those nowadays to ensure the runway is long enough to take off again with a safety margin is part of good practices.

 

[Retired W4]

Interesting discussion. Gun show this weekend kept me from reading until now. BTW, the Piper engineer who examined the wreckage said that with the trim setting at impact it would take over 40 pounds of force to keep the airplane on the ground prior to rotation speed.

 

[Exaviator]

On a Boeing 747 Classic it goes like this:
PF Maintains aircraft on R/W center line with rudder, one hand still on power levers in idle position. (No reverse thrust selected) the other on the control yoke.

PNF Selects flaps 10 and announces, "Stand them Up"
PF Advances power levers to vertical position, backed up by FE. This allows engines to spool up and stabilize.

PNF Trims stab-trim to Take/Off position then calls, "Go"
PF Advances power to Take/Off setting, backed up by FE.
PNF At Vref+10 calls, "Rotate"

PF Rotates and continues the Take/Off.


Notes: PF=Pilot flying. PNF=Check/Training Captain, not flying. FE=Flight Engineer. Vref+10 Flaps40, is equivalent to Vr Flaps10 at training aircraft weights.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

Exaviator, You and your crew would probably passed a check ride had I been the one sitting in the jump seat...

My last year and a half was sitting on the door (jumpseat) observing just what you described doing flight checks.

Not always, but sitting on the door one way, and getting to sit in the back and observe the attendants on the return home, or maybe on another airline if there was going to be a long overlay with the first airline before the return back to my home office.

Something like,1 to Atlanta, 2. to Detroit, 3. to maybe Chicago, or out to Salt Lake, then 4. to home, if it all worked out right in the same day.

Two in one day was enough, but many times it was, run to the next aircarrier, then jump a ride back home.

But probably like you, I sure did get tired of living out of a suit case.!!!!

The attendants seemed to be the worse ones for keeping their manuals updated.

Now it seems like Long, Long ago, and a Far, Far away place.

Health wise now, keeps me from keeping the greasy side down.!!!!


WuzzFuzz

 

[Exaviator]

"Exaviator, You and your crew would probably passed a check ride had I been the one sitting in the jump seat.."

Thanks WuzzFuzz, I spent 40 years in aviation, 16 of which were as a Check & Training Captain on the Boeing 747, so did more than a few touch & go circuits.

 

[Retired W4]

"Exaviator, You and your crew would probably passed a check ride had I been the one sitting in the jump seat.."

Thanks WuzzFuzz, I spent 40 years in aviation, 16 of which were as a Check & Training Captain on the Boeing 747, so did more than a few touch & go circuits.

One question. Isn't V ref and V ref+10 used in landing and not take off? Maybe I'm just confused, or maybe it's just a Seven Four thing.

 

[Jessie]

It was in the 727.
TO was airspeed -V1- Vr/rotate-V2 and V2+10

 

[Exaviator]

W4, remember this thread is about doing touch & go circuits. The aircraft is configured for landing with ASI bugs set accordingly (Vref for Flaps 40) The aircraft is not brought to a full stop and reconfigured.
Everything happens on the roll and no time to change ASI bug settings, just select the flaps, trim the stabilizer, and apply power.


If it was a normal Take/Off the ASI bug setting would be set for V1, Vr, & V2 and the fourth bug to V2+100kts.


Hope that makes things clearer.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

Also, remember Exaviator has/had a TWO man crew, plus one.


WuzzFuzz

 

[Absalom]

Also, remember Exaviator has/had a TWO man crew, plus one.

As we used to say, the two-plus crews don't fly planes, they fly procedures

 

[Sistema1927]

As we used to say, the two-plus crews don't fly planes, they fly procedures

Even at that, I am of the opinion that it should be a requirement that every one with an FAA license be required to read "Stick and Rudder' annually.

 

[Retired W4]

W4, remember this thread is about doing touch & go circuits. The aircraft is configured for landing with ASI bugs set accordingly (Vref for Flaps 40) The aircraft is not brought to a full stop and reconfigured.
Everything happens on the roll and no time to change ASI bug settings, just select the flaps, trim the stabilizer, and apply power.


If it was a normal Take/Off the ASI bug setting would be set for V1, Vr, & V2 and the fourth bug to V2+100kts.


Hope that makes things clearer.

Actually the original post was about some dead guy who, before the crash, had his elevator trim set to the point that he was unable to keep the aircraft on the ground long enough to reach flying speed. The thread evolved into a broad spectrum discussion of procedures, which I have thoroughly enjoyed, as it has been 13 years since I retired from flying. I also enjoy talking flying with my son who fly's 767's and A-10's, not that I know much about either airframe.

The broader point is pay attention to details and STAY SAFE, especially when participating in complex activities. Thanks anyway for the over due refresher course.