Retired cop denied right to CCW

[george minze]

Ok... After reading the story....

It sounds like California law allows retired officers preferential treatment. Unlike everyone else, retired cops are automatically issued a carry permit without having to go through the normal process. But because she (and others) aren't fitting the exact definition of retirement that allows preferential treatment for a carry permit, they will be treated like any other California resident. She don't like it.

Some will complain that she isn't being treated the same as other retired officers. I say that she and everyone else should be treated equally, and all California residents should suffer equally under the "May issue" system they have. She can apply for a permit. Maybe she'll get one, maybe not. That's the way it goes for everyone else in California.

I guess we know where some moderator's stand on retired cops..I was in the hospital for almost 6 months on a duty related injury..(Plane crash) I guess I should have relinquished my right to carry and protect myself from a group, that some liberal judge had already released from prison that I had put there.....Sounds like you have a cop problem..To bad I thought moderator's were straight arrow types..i guess I'm wrong..One guy that I had the case on for homicide is now out and lives near me...So far so good...How would you like that and how would you feel about your family's safety under those circumstances...Moderate away..

 

[Old TexMex]

The anti gunners look at it as "one more of us, one less of them" when they hear of a former LEO denied the right to carry. The fact the anti's already restrict so many is hardly a cause for us to celebrate when they restrict a former LEO.

edit: I'm surprised she can't sue under LEOSA, as have other retired/ inactive officers, since CA law defines retired differently than federal LEOSA. California can't be invoking "states rights" now, can it??

 

[b_san]

I guess we know where some moderator's stand on retired cops..I was in the hospital for almost 6 months on a duty related injury..(Plane crash) I guess I should have relinquished my right to carry and protect myself from a group, that some liberal judge had already released from prison that I had put there.....Sounds like you have a cop problem..To bad I thought moderator's were straight arrow types..i guess I'm wrong..One guy that I had the case on for homicide is now out and lives near me...So far so good...How would you like that and how would you feel about your family's safety under those circumstances...Moderate away..

No you're missing the point, we don't want you disarmed, we want every legal gun owner to be able to be armed including you. It's not a problem with cops, it's a problem with giving special rights to a certain class of people which to me is patently unfair regardless of who they are.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I guess we know where some moderator's stand on retired cops..I was in the hospital for almost 6 months on a duty related injury..(Plane crash) I guess I should have relinquished my right to carry and protect myself from a group, that some liberal judge had already released from prison that I had put there.....Sounds like you have a cop problem..To bad I thought moderator's were straight arrow types..i guess I'm wrong..One guy that I had the case on for homicide is now out and lives near me...So far so good...How would you like that and how would you feel about your family's safety under those circumstances...Moderate away..

You guessed wrong.

The fact that I do not think much of a two-tier citizenry isn't a bash on retired cops.

Believe it or not, retired cops are not the only ones who may fear for their safety and that of their family. I believe that everyone has a Constitutional right to self defense, and it isn't just a right for a privileged or entitled class of citizen, retired cop or anyone else.

I believe that creating special privileged classes serves to the detriment of all. In this case you can see (read above quote) how worked up some folks get at the very notion of a retired cop having to endure the same laws and requirements that a retired repo-man, pawn shop operator, doctor, lawyer, name that profession, must live under. How dare these lower classes of Americans think a retired cop should live under the same law and apply for a permit like anyone else! They must all be cop haters, right?

If someone disagrees with the notion of special rights and privileges (for many different groups) then it must be because they suffer some type of prejudice against them, right? Unfortunately, this type of mentality is rife through society.

Back on topic.... The good people of California are subject to a system where their carry permit application can be turned down at the whim of a sheriff, and routinely denied across the board. Well I suppose it would be rather difficult to explain that all the retired cops are approved and most everyone else is turned down. Wouldn't it avoid a double standard of permit issuance if the law was written that retired cops are just given a permit without having to apply like everyone else? This way we can continue to keep the masses unarmed and not have to explain ourselves . This is an example why I say that a two-tier citizenry is a detriment to all.

 

[Old TexMex]

It isn't a privilege to self defense, it's a Right. There isn't a privileged class, there is a class who are denied their Right.

 

[Fastbolt]

The article doesn't specifically say what sort of medical retirement status is involved. Is she getting a retirement pension, or receiving disability payments. Is she a "retiree" under their system?

Also, it might change things if the medical reason for her to receive disability payments involved being unable to perform her duties due to stress, psychological, etc.

As a University cop, she ought to have been covered under 830.2 PC for retirement CCW privilege, which means she would have to petition her agency for renewal of the status no more than every 5 years (25464 PC), and her privilege could be denied (or revoked) for cause. There's a process for such denials/revocations (26310-26325 PC).

The linked article, nor any others, state whether she requested the hearing process at any point after she accepted her "disability retirement" in April 2013. Former Calif. Police Officer Sues Over Gun Permit - Officer.com

You would think that CA worker's comp attorneys who specialize in public safety employees ... presuming she had retained one to represent her before accepting retirement ... would have clearly identified the nature of the "disability retirement" offered her. Also, sometimes there are understandably details that may not be known or available to anyone outside the employer/employee relationship.

 

[Waywatcher]

Thread title should read:

"Retired cop subject to same laws as normal citizens for CCW."

 

[george minze]

I am not missing the point...Due to the requirements of the job many actions are taken against violators that the average citizen is not evolved with or in...I am not saying that DCFalifornia is right..When the heck are they ever right out there..I'm saying that due to the job a retired copper has probably made quite a few violators mad as heck...The average citizen usually isn't ever put in that position...Also I'm for every person not a felon should have the right to carry for self defense....I can't help it that the re3public of California is a bastion of the liberal elite...Sounds like a California voting problem....If it was up to me their wouldn't be nor would the electorate keep putting those anti folks into office....My point don,t take it out on the folks that put there lives on the line every day pissing off the worst of society....Then try to make it equal for a office manager safety vs, a retired cop...It isn't his fault California voters are left leaning anti gun nuts..Who votes Pelosie and Waters and a whole group of lefty's in office. I remember when California was a great place to live, and people had to work for what they received.....My rant wasn't ment to offend, but Cops have different dangers day in and day out. You make enemies it is the nature of the job....That's all..

 

[Waywatcher]

Many professions "make enemies." Many people make enemies. The way to fix this isn't by granting special rights to privileged classes; but to allow all eligible citizens to carry.

 

[Old TexMex]

Thread title should read:

"Retired cop subject to same laws as normal citizens for CCW."

Would that make you feel better about gun control?

Allow and privileged: nonsense language.

 

[Waywatcher]

Would that make you feel better about gun control?

Allow and privileged: nonsense language.

Here are some definitions to help with your comprehension; posted here for your convenience.

al·low [uh-lou] Show IPA
verb (used with object)
1. to give permission to or for; permit: to allow a student to be absent; No swimming allowed.

priv·i·leged [priv-uh-lijd, priv-lijd] Show IPA
adjective
1. belonging to a class that enjoys special privileges; favored: the privileged few.

As to gun control, as a citizen, having cops be exempt from gun control does not make me feel better.

 

[Old TexMex]

I'm sorry you don't understand that there is a supreme difference between privileges and Rights. You skipped civics class?

When you allow the anti gun mentality to control the language, you are walking into their argument. You accept their claim to GIVE you a right.
My rights come from God, as expressed in our founding documents.

 

[gregintenn]

I guess we know where some moderator's stand on retired cops..I was in the hospital for almost 6 months on a duty related injury..(Plane crash) I guess I should have relinquished my right to carry and protect myself from a group, that some liberal judge had already released from prison that I had put there.....Sounds like you have a cop problem..To bad I thought moderator's were straight arrow types..i guess I'm wrong..One guy that I had the case on for homicide is now out and lives near me...So far so good...How would you like that and how would you feel about your family's safety under those circumstances...Moderate away..

You might make less enemies if you didn't appear to feel yourself superior to everyone who doesn't wear a badge.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Hey guys,

Remember that we're here to discuss and critique the subject, not make personal critiques of each other.

 

[Rastoff]

I have a friend who is a retired cop. He has a CCW, but not like mine. His is issued through his agency and must be renewed every year. He must qualify with each gun he wants to carry. I find that odd because my license is good for two years and I can qualify with any gun regardless if it's on my license or not.

I really don't see retired cops as a "privileged" class. What I do see, is that under the law (prior to Peruta) retired cops have an automatic "good cause" to carry. So, they just have a better reason to satisfy the law because of all the potential threats from people they've arrested.

In CA active cops do fall into a privileged class in that they can buy any handgun they want. Once retired though, they lose that ability and can only buy guns off the approved list just like the rest of us. Fastbolt correct me if I'm wrong on that.

 

[sgtsandman]

I have a friend who is a retired cop. He has a CCW, but not like mine. His is issued through his agency and must be renewed every year. He must qualify with each gun he wants to carry. I find that odd because my license is good for two years and I can qualify with any gun regardless if it's on my license or not.

I really don't see retired cops as a "privileged" class. What I do see, is that under the law (prior to Peruta) retired cops have an automatic "good cause" to carry. So, they just have a better reason to satisfy the law because of all the potential threats from people they've arrested.

In CA active cops do fall into a privileged class in that they can buy any handgun they want. Once retired though, they lose that ability and can only buy guns off the approved list just like the rest of us. Fastbolt correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I believe retired officers have more freedom to carry in places the average CCW holder cannot, and thus why they are required to qualify and renew more often. I could be wrong, and each State has different laws on this. It won't be the first time nor the last time for me. LOL

 

[george minze]

You might make less enemies if you didn't appear to feel yourself superior to everyone who doesn't wear a badge.

Yes I made some enemies...Two families for sure as their sons and brothers served the ultimate penalty. They decided to kill a mother and son real estate partnership...Then they tried to kill a Kentucky Sheriff who had a sixth sense and saved himself...Yes we tracked them to Florida and back a couple of times..During the trial one of the killers looked at the recorder and stated "I killed the Old Broad because she had put up a fight when we were doing a home evasion. and torturing her 40 year old son..Both got the death penalty and it was adjudicated with in 8 years. Both got the pill.....The only point I tried in my coppers way was, that some times you cause bad guys to pay the ultimate price, they have brothers, fathers and friends...My testimony to the one guys statement about the lady probably got him the pill, instead of life. That was in the 90's...Actually I really don't like to carry, it is a pain, but sometimes it is necessary....I believe in CCW for any law abiding citizen but I also believe that by nature of the job a retired or off duty cop is more apt to be subject to retribution than the regular citizen,,not always but the threat is always there. Is that so strange that I would believe that way????...At 75 and with 40+ years carrying a badge I guess I'll never change....I will forget the privileged class remark, as I consider it not only miss applied but demeaning..iI have never thought of myself as a privileged or superior class..I though of myself as a servant of the public Thank You....

 

[Old TexMex]

George Orwell said "Control the language and you control the debate. Control the debate and you control the people"

" the masses", dang I dislike being called that...like being referred to a " the workers". Ick.


I can't bring myself to think of LEOs as "privileged", lousy pay, long hours, dealing with domestic violence, disturbed, violent criminals,bureaucrats and politics...

The average joe in CA is therefore oppressed , because the small number who can carry have no more rights than the average joe in most of the U.S.

I must've picked that up living in disarmed nations....

ps: i think this is psychology, not politics.

 

[walkin' trails]

It was my understanding of the federal LEOSA statute that retirement wasn't necessarily a requirement as long as the officer had at least 10 years active full time status and left in good standing. This medical retirement thing may have to be settled in court. On the other hand, there are still plenty of police and government administratos who do not care for LEOSA and will try to circumvent at every opportunity.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

From Wiki - The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is a United States federal law, enacted in 2004, that allows two classes of persons—the "qualified law enforcement officer" and the "qualified retired law enforcement officer"—to carry a concealed firearm in any jurisdiction in the United States, regardless of state or local laws, with certain exceptions.

This is the difference between LEOSA carriers and regular handgun licensees. The LEOSA carriers can carry in any state, regardless of that state's laws. LEOSA carriers are also exempt from any state's ammunition restrictions (such NJ's ban on hollowpoints) unless they got their LEOSA status in such a state.

Still waiting for Congress to pass nationwide reciprocity or for SCOTUS to add handgun licenses to the "full faith and credit" clause.

ECS