Right Ammo for 1951 K-38 Masterpiece

[roadhog96]

Anyone know if it's OK or should I say safe to use 158 Grain +P in this revolver or should I just stick to the standard 158 Grain load or lower. I think I remember reading that the .38 Special CTG was designed to use a 158 grain round and not a good idea to use the +P in an old gun because they weren't rated for it. Then I have read that it is OK to use it. What the heck is the right anwser on this, I'm getting tired or searching on the internet and going in circles. I don't want to damage the the gun in anyway it's to precious.

 

[Art Doc]

+P is loaded 3,000 PSI below maximum allowable pressure. It is a marketing myth that it is any sort of hot load. IMO it is a very mild gallery load but for reasons I don't get it generates much hysteria..

 

[DCWilson]

S&W's answer has been that if you have a model-marked .38 (like MOD 14 or MOD 15), it should be safe to shoot +P ammunition in it. Your 1951 Pre-14 is about six or seven years too early to have had a model ID stamped on it, but I don't think there were any major changes in metallurgy or engineering in that brief period. I would think it would be safe to shoot with +P, which as a prominent forum member may be along shortly to remind us, is a much lower pressure round than most people think it is. Still, I'm not sure why anyone would use +P ammo as a standard load in any revolver except one devoted exclusively to defensive purposes, though occasional sessions with the zippier loads would be understandable.

In general, I shoot 148 gr wadcutter match ammo in my classic .38s just because it behaves so well and is such a low-stress round. If I think a more powerful cartridge is warranted by the situation, that's why I have a couple of large frame .357s and some .44s.

Oops, the "prominent forum member" got his answer in a minute before I did!

 

[beagleye]

This subject...

has been covered on this forum many times, but never settled. You might want to do a forum search on the subject and see what comes up.

But I will summarize. You are almost certainly not going to blow your revolver up using +p, but you might accelerate some wear and tear issues.

I don't do it. I have a pristine 1948 k38. If I needed to I wouldn't be scared but, I have other guns that are more suited for that.

 

[roaddog28]

I have used +P ammo in my M&P 38 4 inch production 1954. I have not had any problems with the revolver. I have read and done research on the whole +P subject and agree with SP that +P today is what standard pressure was before 1972. The velocity on standard ammo back then was around 850 to 900 fps. I believe this is out of a 4 inch revolver. Most of todays +P ammo is rated at the same velocity. Whether to use +P in a older S&W revolver is strictly a personal decision. At the range I use the standard reloaded range ammo. Its a 158 gr round much like the average standard pressure round today with velocity at 750 fps. Reason, they are cheap to use and I don't reload. But I do put through from time to time a box or two of Remingtons LSWCHP 158gr +P. Again the velocity is around 850 to 900.
Bottom line: In my opinion I don't see a issue with you shooting +P through your pre-14 from time to time.
regards,
Howard

 

[larryofcc]

WHY????? The pre M14 K38 Masterpiece is a hand made tool for match and target shooting. If you want more power I would suggest you buy a M19 or M66 or one of the L frame revolvers and shoot magnums. I have 5 pre M14's and one M14 and the hottest loads I shoot out of them and my pre 10's is the 158 gr. Police rounds. Round nose and wad cutters.My opinion. Big Larry

 

[cgt4570]

As others have said, modern +P is no hotter than some of the early police loads. They are lighter than the old .38-44 Heavy Dutyloads or the .38 Special HS (High Speed). Shoot all the +P you want. You won't hurt that pre-14 or any other Smith made after WW1.

 

[Green Frog]

I think Big Larry said it best. That revolver was specially built as a target revolver. You can probably plow a field with a thoroughbred, but the horses bred for that job will probably do it better, and the thoroughbred will win a race for you. Is that confusing enough for you?

Froggie

PS My 1951 vintage K-38 is a bit of a safe queen, but if I were going to shoot her, she would dine on HBWCs and vintage Bullseye powder, probably served in polished brass!

 

[roadhog96]

WHY????? The pre M14 K38 Masterpiece is a hand made tool for match and target shooting. If you want more power I would suggest you buy a M19 or M66 or one of the L frame revolvers and shoot magnums. I have 5 pre M14's and one M14 and the hottest loads I shoot out of them and my pre 10's is the 158 gr. Police rounds. Round nose and wad cutters.My opinion. Big Larry

Well supposedly a .38 Special+P 158gr LSWCHP is regarded as one of the most popular and recomended rounds to use for Defensive duty. It's not that I want to use them, I was just asking if it was really safe to use this round in a K-38 Masterpiece because it is a +P round.

I have no problem with sticking with a standard 158gr or lower load. Besides it's been said that all fixedsight .38s are regulated at the factory to shoot accurately with 158 grain bullets, and this was the weight of the long-time standard American and Canadian police load right or wrong.

 

[growr]

I fail to understand the fascination with using plus p ammo in older guns. It has been shown a gazillion times that they can stand up to it's useage....but I ask the same age old question. Why?

What do you REALLY gain in the use of plus p ammo?

Randy

 

[Black_Talon]

Besides it's been said that all fixedsight .38s are regulated at the factory to shoot accurately with 158 grain bullets, and this was the weight of the long-time standard American and Canadian police load right or wrong.

Mostly right, but since the k38's have adjustable sights, that's not an issue for them.

I'm also in the camp of "you probably can safely shoot +P loads, but WHY?", and I practice what I preach, with all three of my K38/Model 14's.

 

[roadhog96]

Mostly right, but since the k38's have adjustable sights, that's not an issue for them.
I'm also in the camp of "you probably can safely shoot +P loads, but WHY?", and I practice what I preach, with all three of my K38/Model 14's.

True but who wants to have to keep dialing their sights in everytime you change ammo type to be accurate. I'd rather stay put once it's set up. Just saying!

 

[OK Hog Shooter]

I have a circa 1950 K-38 that l haven't shot yet. It's not a safe queen... I just haven't had a chance to work with it at the range. My intention is to find the best factory load for accuracy and then shoot just that round. I know... it's a tough job but somebody's gotta do it. I have no interest in shooting any +P ammo - just my personal preference.

 

[Wrightturn]

K38

Best Solution would be to sell me yhe K 38 . I may have a 66 that you can shoot +P in if you want.

Earl

 

[A10]

148 grain full wadcutters. They make nice round holes in paper.

 

[Art Doc]

To those asking "why?" I respond "why not?"

Again, saying "why shoot +P ammo" is continuing to buy the fallacy that it is in some way a high performance load. It is not.

Here ya go... again. My well-worn 1942 Victory Model through which I ran 500 factory +Ps (125@925... WOW! What a powerhouse load!) as well as 600 of my own +P+s (same 125 at a clocked 1150). Results? Exactly as I anticipated. No ill effects whatsoever.

Shooters today may not realize that many cops and others routinely carried the K38 Masterpiece as a duty weapon back in the 1950s and 1960s. The K38M is no weaker or temperamental than the Combat Masterpiece or the M&P. Why all the concern for a sturdy gun like the K38 with underpowered ammo like +P?

I still don't get it.

 

[larryofcc]

This is kind of like shooting CCI Stingers in a fine target rifle like a M52 Winchester. No, it won't hurt the rifle, have you ever seen that beefy receiver? I am quite sure when the engineers developed that rifle, it was designed for target loads as that is what the rifle was meant to shoot. Now, some 50 years later, we have varmint hunters using that high quality rifle for shooting helpless little critters. I am quite sure the rifle will not be harmed in any way, but I would not put so much faith in shooting hot loads from a 50 year old and probably collectable revolver. Just like shooting an old shotgun with a twist steel bbl. You may get 1,000 rds of smokeless through it, and one day you get blinded when it finally lets go. There is simply no way I will ever do this. Big Larry

 

[Art Doc]

A Damascus barrel shotgun is obviously unsafe with modern ammo and has no bearing on the +P in strong S&W revolvers discussion.

 

[larryofcc]

Obviously to some and to others who are not gun collectors, the danger is real. Shooting one with modern smokeless power may be akin to shooting a + P in an old revolver. You go ahead and do what you want with your guns, but I will never put a +P through a target revolver. Makes no sense to me. Want more power, get a M29. Big Larry

 

[Art Doc]

Again, +P is not loaded to maximum allowable pressure, let alone higher. You apparently worry about +P wearing or damaging a gun but this is nonsense. Every 38 revolver is built to use 21,500 PSI ammo. Factory +P is loaded to 18,500 PSI. How does this pose a threat to any gun? All of your concerns regarding +P are based on a fallacy. Factory +P is actually underloaded, not overloaded.

Again, you bring apples into a discussion of oranges. What does a 44 Magnum have to do with the 38 Special?

Of course you are free to do as you please with your guns. But when you espouse your opinion in an open forum you invite debate. Lord knows I get disagreement when I express my opinion (which is actually based on considerable research rather than just a gut feeling or hearsay).