Roll Crimping Cast 45ACP?

[mikld]

I have "roll crimped" 45 ACP handloads, but the "crimp" was merely removing the case mouth flare. No, a real crimp is not wanted or needed on 45 ACP because of headspacing on the case mouth, and taper crimping only needs enough to straighten the case mouth as neck tension is what holds the bullet in place (I reload for 3, 45 ACP guns and do not "crimp" any handloads, I just "deflare")...

 

[LoboGunLeather]

A moderate roll crimp is fine with .45ACP subject to two tests:

1. "Plunk test". Remove your pistol barrel, insert the reloaded cartridge in the chamber, it should drop to the seated position with case head aligned with the barrel shroud.

2. Range test. Ammunition should feed, fire, extract, and eject reliably.

Given the variations in cartridge brass (neck wall thickness, etc) and reloading dies (varying tolerances), a moderate roll crimp can be advantageous, providing positive resistance against the bullet being forced deeper into the case during the feeding cycle.

 

[andyo5]

You should not need to roll crimp 45acp cartridges. I use Dillon dies. The insertion of a bullet into a resized case causes the case to swell slightly, to the point that it is visibly obvious. That is what retains the bullet.
I load mostly 0.451" bullets.

 

[Ray]

Since I´m reloading only for my S&W brazilian 1917 my concern regards what crimp the Lee Loader offers.The kit is for .45 ACP and .45 AR but they do not state in their user´s manual which crimp the tool provides.I guess I´ll only find out when I shoot the piece after the vírus crisis ends. Hope the bullet won´t move under recoil
Regards, Ray

 

[rwsmith]

Yes, it's the AMOUNT.....

I have "roll crimped" 45 ACP handloads, but the "crimp" was merely removing the case mouth flare. No, a real crimp is not wanted or needed on 45 ACP because of headspacing on the case mouth, and taper crimping only needs enougnh to straighten the case mouth as neck tension is what holds the bullet i place (I reload for 3, 45 ACP guns and do not "crimp" any handloads, I just "deflare")...

It's the amount of roll crimp applied. If light, the case mouth can still be used to index. Anything more and it doesn't index on the case mouth, but on the curve or the roll crimp.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

My Combat Commander will shoot roll and taper crimp about the same.My S&W 1911 DK prefers by far taper.
The way I taper crimp is quite simple.I measure the bullet diameter and the brass thicknessX2;add both and you get the measurement of the finished cartridge crimped.
Bullet 0.452 +brass(depending on brand ;let's say .004X2=.008)=0.460''

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
Depends what you shoot them in.
A revolver,, with moon clips,, go for it.....
No problem.
A 1911 or other gun [like glock] where the extractor "can " hold
the case against the firing pin , can be ok [ though you can break an extractor from time to time]
Last , loading a semi-wadcutter like boolet with a shoulder, use the "old"
way of heading.
Seat the boolet out till the case head spaces on the shoulder
then crimp as you like as the head space is set by the bullet not the case.
As I said " old farts " target loads.

 

[Nevada Ed]

The auto pistol chamber was designed to set headspace per the cases rim.

Too much crimp can cause picture #1.

Seating on the lead bullet can be like picture #4.......
if not done correctly.

Not saying that you can't crimp, just it depends a lot on your chamber and
the amount of crimp and style of bullet used, plus brass thickness !!

Just because your ammo works, does not mean that it is "Correct", for your pistol.

 

[rosewood]

Just because your ammo works, does not mean that it is "Correct", for your pistol.

One of the most accurate statements I have heard.

 

[Engineer1911]

Taper crimp to a Case mouth diameter = 0.469" .

Round nose ammo COL = 1.250", Semi Wad Cutter have 0.015" to 0.025" bullet shoulder exposed above the case mouth. This data was provided in a Chip McCormick Shooting Star magazine data sheet. It has worked flawlessly for me for 30 years.

 

[rays44]

The auto pistol chamber was designed to set headspace per the cases rim.

Too much crimp can cause picture #1.

Seating on the lead bullet can be like picture #4.......
if not done correctly.

Not saying that you can't crimp, just it depends a lot on your chamber and
the amount of crimp and style of bullet used, plus brass thickness !!

Just because your ammo works, does not mean that it is "Correct", for your pistol.

I would add that what is correct/functional in your pistol may not be in another.

 

[glowe]

For $20 one can purchase a Lee Carbide Crimp DIe for 45 ACP that produces a perfect factory crimp even on bullets with no cannelures. I have used it for years and never had a problem in revolvers or semi-autos. This die also sizes the case as it is crimps. It is good for 45 ACP, 45 Auto Rim, and 45 Win Mag.

 

[rosewood]

For $20 one can purchase a Lee Carbide Crimp DIe for 45 ACP that produces a perfect factory crimp even on bullets with no cannelures. I have used it for years and never had a problem in revolvers or semi-autos. This die also sizes the case as it is crimps. It is good for 45 ACP, 45 Auto Rim, and 45 Win Mag.

The problem with this die, it will swage down lead boolits possibly making them too small and causing leading. I purchased the lee taper only crimp die for cast boolits and use the factory crimp die for jacketed bullets.

Rosewood

 

[Funflyer]

Does anyone do this? Forty years ago, my 45 RCBS die set came with a seater die that roll crimps and I used it that way for many years. Way back when, I bought a separate Taper Crimp die and have used that since. I am now finding that the TC die is not holding cast bullets firmly in R-P brass cases. Would reverting back to the original RC seater be a good idea in order to continue loading the R-P cases. I have a lot of them.

Crimp is not what holds the bullet, neck tension does. Switch to a U-die and press on.

Lee undersized sizing die

 

[rosewood]

Crimp is not what holds the bullet, neck tension does. Switch to a U-die and press on.

Lee undersized sizing die

Hmm, then why do you need a "firm" crimp in heavy recoiling calibers like .44mag to prevent bullet pulling when firing in revolvers?

Rosewood

 

[rockquarry]

I don't know if there are any firm rules regarding all cartridges as to neck tension alone holding a bullet in place. I've found a combination of neck tension and a crimp of some kind necessary to prevent bullet movement with handgun cartridges and with a few rifle cartridges, particularly those loaded with cast bullets for use in tubular magazines.

However, from photos I've seen on the Internet, I think many (maybe most) handloaders use more crimp than is necessary.

 

[stansdds]

Hmm, then why do you need a "firm" crimp in heavy recoiling calibers like .44mag to prevent bullet pulling when firing in revolvers?

Rosewood

Recoil with revolvers with heavy loads tends to pull bullets out of the case. In a nutshell, the heavy revolver bullet wants to resist the sudden rearward movement of the cylinder when the revolver is fired. Semi-auto pistols have a different problem. Recoil forces in the magazine tend to be less and the bigger issue is bullets being pushed deeper into the semi-auto pistol case as the round is forced up the feed ramp by the slide.

 

[rosewood]

Recoil with revolvers with heavy loads tends to pull bullets out of the case. In a nutshell, the heavy revolver bullet wants to resist the sudden rearward movement of the cylinder when the revolver is fired.

Exactly, hence needing a heavy crimp. Ergo, both case tension and crimp hold the bullet in place to varying degrees depending on the gun/cartridge/use.

Rosewood

 

[glowe]

The problem with this die, it will swage down lead boolits possibly making them too small and causing leading. I purchased the lee taper only crimp die for cast boolits and use the factory crimp die for jacketed bullets.

Rosewood

Have to disagree, since the taper crimp is only about 1/16" long when the die is set up correctly. The barrel of the die is .475". Barnes states .476" is neck diameter, while SAAMI states .473" at the neck behind the crimp. My reloads after crimp come up at .474". I suppose that there might be some thick walled cases that could compress the bullet, but not with my loads. Below are some plinking loads for the 45 S&W.

What I often wonder about is why does the reloading decap/sizing die measure only .470"? To me, that would tend to compress the bullet as it is seated in the case?

 

[Funflyer]

Hmm, then why do you need a "firm" crimp in heavy recoiling calibers like .44mag to prevent bullet pulling when firing in revolvers?

Rosewood

We're talking about 45ACP, not 44 Magnum. Two different reasons, and methods for applying that crimp, but I'm sure you already know that. Applying a roll crimp to correct the OP's loose bullet problem is NOT the answer, correcting the improperly sized case is.