Rotating ammo in mags.

deanodog

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Does anyone besides me rotate their ammo every two or three months to give the mag springs time to "rest" on their home defense auto.
 
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Does anyone besides me rotate their ammo every two or three months to give the mag springs time to "rest" on their home defense auto.
 
Not sure what you mean Deanodog...aren't all 9mm,.40, etc. rounds the same circumference?
 
I used to do that before an engineer explained to my satisfaction how it's the compressing and decompressing of (well made) springs that wears them, not the mere act of being compressed.
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This is well documented on various forums - I'd suggest you run some searches on the subject.
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Not sure what you mean Deanodog
Just that the constant pressure would weaken the mag spring. Sounds like Erich has a handle on this. I was just thinking that the constant decompression of the spring would make it weaker regardless of caliber.
 
The answer is dependent on proper design and material selection. A noted supplier of 1911 magazines recently changed the design of their magazine among the related issues were spring fatigue and body construction. S&W on SW99-45ACP had issues with magazine springs. They redesigned the springs after customers brought this to their attention. Glock seems to have minimal issues with magazines which are loaded over extended periods of time.

I've designed springs for various applications in the hydraulics industry. Based on my experience spring design is a combination of science and art.
 
Originally posted by deanodog:
Does anyone besides me rotate their ammo every two or three months to give the mag springs time to "rest" on their home defense auto.

How much springs are affected by being compressed over a period of time is a function of quality and design. Some POS start to fail the first time you use them, good ones last for decades with no significant change.

They don't "rest" like animals do. Urban Myth.
Do you loosen the valve springs on your car to "rest" them?
 
I've posted this story before, but....my Dad was in the South Pacific during WW2 until contracting malaria in Okinawa. While in Pearl recovering, he traded some contraband for a Italian officer (Air Force) .32 Beretta. That gun sits in my safe (as it sat in my Dad's sock drawer for over 60 years) with a fully loaded magazine which every other year or so, I shoot about 50 rounds, reload and put it away. The mag springs are solid having been fully loaded since , rarely fired, since WW2. Same principal with 7.62x39, I always have 12-14 fully loaded 30 round AK mags in ammo cans so that on range day it won't take me an hour to load the rounds. Compression and expansion combined is the key to spring failure, not compression itself nor expansion itself. I've been told that baking mag springs @450 for an hour will restore "memory" to the spring when worn out. Anyone know?
 
Interesting replys. I feel a bit better about the mag springs and maybe not rotating much ammo anymore.
 
Some like to use the analogy of a paperclip moved back and forth until the metal fatigues and it snaps...but that's not the correct idea.

With magazine springs if they are designed correctly, it's like bending the paperclip a smaller amount, such that the metal is never stressed.

Magazines that need 'break in' or loosening from being fully loaded are not well made.
 
My favorite uncle, Rudy Miller, brought two loaded 1911 magazines home from fighting with the 63rd Infantry Division in Europe. He had them in a web belt pouch with a bunch of other stuff from his army days, in an open crate in his garage. I know he never had a 1911 of his own and had little regard for the pistol, preferring the .30-06 Browning Automatic Rifle, of which he wore out several during the fighting. The magazines were loaded with steel cased ammo dated 1943.

I found the magazines and other stuff while cleaning out his home after he and my aunt had passed on. The contents of the box were dusty, dirty and generally filthy. I doubt he had even looked into that box since they bought their home in 1956.

I took the loaded mags home, along with a handful of more of the same headstamped .45 cartridges. I rinsed the mags out with brake cleaner and compressed air. I left the cartridges in them. I am sure those cartrdges had ben in those magazines from 1945 until 2003, when I found them.

I took the mags and ammo to the range along with my Reminton-Rand 1911-A1 and shot them. The magazines functioned fine in the old pistol. I had enough of those steel cartridges to run about 50 rounds total through the gun. The magazines worked great, with the springs feeling about as stiff as current 1911 magazines I have.

About the only reason to rotate your semiautomatic ammo in your magazines is to avoid the damage that repeatedly cycling one into the chamber would have. The impact with the feedramp when loading and then the chewing of the rim by the extractor should be minimized by not rechambering and ejecting the same round whenever you load and unload the handgun.
 
I have heard that single stack mags are less likely to have a problem over double stack, hence the 1911 success stories. But I fully load my double stack mags and have never had a problem.
 
Please allow me to point out that there much disagreement concerning the long term loading of magazines. (this we can all agree on).

Consider, there is NO EVIDENCE for the belief that "resting" a magazine spring some how allows it to "heal" or otherwise regain its strength.
 
A good way to do that is on the range. Shoot up your older ammo, and replace it with fresh.
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Otherwise, modern springs don't need to rest.
 
Well, I think that a magazine that needed a 'break in' is a bad one. The only magazines I have known like that were made by Taurus.
 
A guy once said to me that it's like a coil spring on your car. You coil springs can sit compressed with the weight of the car for decades.The clock on the springs lifetime begins when it begins moving up and down and not until.
 
A spring is in use when compressed and not in use when relaxed. Metal retains memory so prolonged compression will have an effect. The quality of the spring truly effects the durration/life of the srping. Best advice is leave mag unloaded when not in use. For the home defense pistol buy several mags and swith them out every couple of months. Lots of stories of loaded mags being good to go many years latter but why risk it? Take a few minutes every couple of months to change the rounds from one mag to another. All the same I would also suggest going to the range at least four times a year to keep familar with your pistol.
 
Originally posted by conn ak:
A guy once said to me that it's like a coil spring on your car. You coil springs can sit compressed with the weight of the car for decades.The clock on the springs lifetime begins when it begins moving up and down and not until.

Something that guy didn't mention is that a lot of us clasic car owners put our cars on stands over the fall and winter months to take the load off the suspension/springs. The reason for this is because the springs aren't moving and become compressed. True enough if you drive a the car everyday the springs get the work out they need but if your going to park a car for six months it is a truly good idea and a good practice to put the car on stands to remove the retention on the suspension/springs.
 
I rotate the ammo in my guns regularly, but it has nothing to do with springs. Every time I unload a gun, I take care to relocate the round that had been chambered to the bottom of the mag before reloading. Once each round has cycled from the mag into the chamber once, I retire those rounds to practice status. A bit extreme, yes, but repeatedly chambering ammo can lead to bullets being seated deeper, cases dented or scratched, etc. It's the kind of damage that will occur much more often than a good spring going bad.
 
Also only anecdotal evidence --

In my small police department, most of the issued magazine springs were good for years, but a few of them went soft.

In my personal stock, most of my magazine springs, for several different pistols, have been good for decades, but a few of them have failed.

My observation has been that a weak spring that won't feed also won't lift the slide stop, so that's been my quick test. If the magazine will still lock open the slide, it will still feed too.

Carry magazines and ammunition should be checked regularly - monthly - in any case, for gunk, corrosion ... or weak springs ... that might not be apparent externally.

On that tangent, I've seen guys rotate cartridges from the chamber back to the magazine with the intent to spread out the damage - if any - from loading and unloading. Seems to me that you'll just end up with a whole magazine of bad ammunition.

Other than an initial inspection check, ammunition in my magazines stayed in my magazines. I would use one cartridge for the chamber for a month, then put that one into the practice pile, and start again with a new round.
 
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