Russian Ammo BANNED

[Oldsalt66]

I listened to enough of that podcast to hear Charley tell us that Barnaul was still importing ammo and would be until the form 6's were exhausted. They usually run for 2 years but who knows. It sounds like he was caught by surprise by this, which is contrary to other interviews I have seen which said that this action was anticipated.

Wolf gets most of their ammo from Taiwan right now but I'm sure that they contract with whoever gives them the best deal. I know that their rimfire ammo is, or was, made in Germany. I'm not sure where they get it now. They stopped getting ammo from Russia in 2009 when they dissolved their affiliation with the Tula arsenal.

Red Army Standard ammo comes from Bosnia, Poland, Romania, Ukraine (Whatever their status is). Lots of that manufacturing capacity you talk about existed in Soviet satellites and was left behind when the USSR folded.

There is also PPU in Serbia who has made ammo for all of them at one time or another.

They are all still in business and still importing ammo as fast as they can get containers to ship it here.


That last YouTube video was way better than the Army guy by the way!

The Wolf ammo that comes from Taiwan is brass cased Wolf Gold M193 5.56, and .308, but virtually all, if not in fact, all, other Wolf branded center fire ammunition is currently sourced from plants in Russia.

Wolf .22lr used to source from the Lapua Plant in Germany, but is currently made by Eley.

The ammunition industry in Ukraine is currently basically defunct and produces virtually no, if any, ammunition at the current time, in fact, the Ukrainian military buys its ammunition abroad.

Century's Red Army Standard comes from Russia, currently from Tula, but until recently it was from Vympel (identical to Golden Tiger), and before that from plants like Klimovsk....ALL OF WHICH ARE LOCATED IN RUSSIA, although years ago, some of it was sourced from places like Romania, etc.

PPU in Serbia is currently operating at full capacity mostly serving the military contract market and is highly unlikely to ramp up production for the civilian markets, and they're currently selling every round they can manufacture.

Wolf has not terminated its relationship with Tula, and, in fact, is currently sourcing ammunition from Tula/Ulyanovsk in Russia ( Wolf Performance among others).

Wolf also originates in The Barnaul Plant (Wolf Military Classic, Wolf Polyformance, Wolf Copper Jacket Laquered), and at one time from Klimovsk ( sold as Wolf Performance), also in Russia.

The small arms ammunition manufacturing capacity remains mostly in Russia, and not in the former satellite countries and there is currently no excess capacity outside of Russia that can even try to fill the gap.

When the extant import licenses expire, ammunition manufactured in Russia becomes fully sanctioned, as are the factories in which it is produced.

It becomes contraband regardless of whether it's shipped to a third party country for re branding, and bringing it into The United States is no longer considered importation, but rather smuggling, which is a criminal enterprise; something that's frowned upon by US Customs and The Treaury Department.

Smuggling ammunition will be easy to uncover, and it will be prosecuted.


What I'm trying to say in so many words is that the information you've provided throughout this entire thread, is, in fact, worthless misinformation.

 

[biku324]

Chinese and Eastern Bloc SKS rifles (and fewer Makarovs and Tokarevs) went south (Mexico) from gun, discount, and hardware stores from Brownsville to National City in the '90s. Same-same 7.62x39 cheap, steel-cased ammo by the pallet. Drug mules would get paid in the US for a successful run, then buy 9 or fewer SKS rifles and cans of ammo, then smuggle them into Mexico where they were worth 5x the US price. These used to fuel the drug cartel family feuds and chronic insurrection over land in Chiapas. Just incidentally, cheap ComBloc weapons and ammo helped fuel our violent crime surge in the mid-90s.

Not a fan of people who hate us selling what they sincerely hope will kill at least some of us.

 

[scoobysnacker]

Chinese and Eastern Bloc SKS rifles (and fewer Makarovs and Tokarevs) went south (Mexico) from gun, discount, and hardware stores from Brownsville to National City in the '90s. Same-same 7.62x39 cheap, steel-cased ammo by the pallet. Drug mules would get paid in the US for a successful run, then buy 9 or fewer SKS rifles and cans of ammo, then smuggle them into Mexico where they were worth 5x the US price. These used to fuel the drug cartel family feuds and chronic insurrection over land in Chiapas. Just incidentally, cheap ComBloc weapons and ammo helped fuel our violent crime surge in the mid-90s.

Not a fan of people who hate us selling what they sincerely hope will kill at least some of us.

I understand your sentiment to a point, but let's keep perspective here. There is violent crime due to criminal activity, not due to access to weapons. Many people on this and other boards have enough firearms and ammo to stock a small militia, and never commit any acts of violence... or for that matter even drive aggressively.

The availability of low-priced but well-made firearms is something that benefits a lot of folks. The availability of inexpensive and reliable ammo also does. I'd rather a Makarov than a Lorcin, 10 out of 10 days a week.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

I'm going to sell all of my Commie Bloc rifles into a falling market for half of what I paid for them.

I'm just kidding. I don't own any Commie Bloc rifles.

This joke will age really well when they ban the rifles you do use… I don't use rifles at all, should I not care if they ban AR-15 platforms then? Of course not! We should be unified in fighting ANY bans on guns/ammo, that includes the ones we don't personally own. Sad to see you don't care that the anti-gun noose just got a little tighter, and once it tightens it rarely loosens again. I guess if it doesn't effect you now though, it's all good… Selfish, short sighted, and ignorant.

 

[Oldsalt66]

This joke will age really well when they ban the rifles you do use… I don't use rifles at all, should I not care if they ban AR-15 platforms then? Of course not, we should be unified in fighting any bans on guns/ammo, that includes ones we don't personally own. Sad to see you don't care the anti-gun noose just got tighter. I guess if it doesn't effect you now though, it's all good… Selfish, short sighted, and ignorant.

Indeed.

Divide and conquer.

 

[scoobysnacker]

This joke will age really well when they ban the rifles you do use… I don't use rifles at all, should I not care if they ban AR-15 platforms then? Of course not! We should be unified in fighting ANY bans on guns/ammo, that includes the ones we don't personally own. Sad to see you don't care that the anti-gun noose just got a little tighter, and once it tightens it rarely loosens again. I guess if it doesn't effect you now though, it's all good… Selfish, short sighted, and ignorant.

This is why I absolutely HATE to see people making Fudd vs Tacticool comments.

The Anti-2A guys make zero distinction, they don't care if you just hunt, and only shoot your gun 3-4 times a season. The root of their argument is that 'firearms are bad', and there's no reason you should have a 30-30, or an old 30.06 bolt action either. Stop angering PETA and get your soy-made food in the supermarket, you caveman.

Oh, and something relevant to the hunting crowd- 7.62x39 is a great anti-hog round. I'm in the South, hogs are a big problem. 223 is ok, if you get a headshot. Stepping up to 7.62x39 is significantly better. Tula makes and sells softpoints that work great on this.
This isn't so much 'casual hunting' like deer, this is trying to control a serious pest issue.

 

[rockquarry]

This is why I absolutely HATE to see people making Fudd vs Tacticool comments.

The Anti-2A guys make zero distinction, they don't care if you just hunt, and only shoot your gun 3-4 times a season. The root of their argument is that 'firearms are bad', and there's no reason you should have a 30-30, or an old 30.06 bolt action either. Stop angering PETA and get your soy-made food in the supermarket, you caveman.

Oh, and something relevant to the hunting crowd- 7.62x39 is a great anti-hog round. I'm in the South, hogs are a big problem. 223 is ok, if you get a headshot. Stepping up to 7.62x39 is significantly better. Tula makes and sells softpoints that work great on this.
This isn't so much 'casual hunting' like deer, this is trying to control a serious pest issue.

What is a "fudd"?

 

[biku324]

Urban Dictionary:

Fudd

Slang term for a "casual" gun owner; eg; a person who typically only owns guns for hunting or shotgun sports and does not truly believe in the true premise of the second amendment. These people also generally treat owners/users of so called "non sporting" firearms like handguns or semiautomatic rifles with unwarranted scorn or contempt.

Wiktionary:

A gun-owner who supports traditional hunting guns but favors gun control for other guns such as handguns or tactical rifles.

 

[rockquarry]

Urban Dictionary:

Fudd

Slang term for a "casual" gun owner; eg; a person who typically only owns guns for hunting or shotgun sports and does not truly believe in the true premise of the second amendment. These people also generally treat owners/users of so called "non sporting" firearms like handguns or semiautomatic rifles with unwarranted scorn or contempt.

Thank you. I could tell by the way it was used that it didn't describe the only "Fudd" I've heard of - the cartoon character Elmer Fudd who was always depicted as a simple-minded half-wit.

It appears the current "fudd" definition came from elsewhere. Based on that description, I don't believe I've ever run across a "fudd".

 

[scoobysnacker]

Thank you. I could tell by the way it was used that it didn't describe the only "Fudd" I've heard of - the cartoon character Elmer Fudd who was always depicted as a simple-minded half-wit.

It appears the current "fudd" definition came from elsewhere. Based on that description, I don't believe I've ever run across a "fudd".

I'm definitely not a huge 'tactical/operator' guy...

But yes, I do believe it's a callback to Elmer Fudd. He's got his double barrel for 'hunting wabbits', and doesn't need anything else. The connotation is that nobody else "needs" anything else, either.
There seems to be a point of derision and conflict coming between the two camps-
one is the hunting guys (OBVIOUSLY not all hunters), who don't use anything else but their bolt guns or such, and look down on the other extreme.
We've seen some comments about AKs and 'cheap commie guns' even in this thread. Plenty more online.

The other extreme, of course, is the guy dressed in paramilitary gear, who critiques various semi-auto (and select fire?) firearms as to their "operator worthiness" or something along those lines. They disparage handguns if they're not Sig Legion Blackwater whatevers or similar, inexpensive ARs (it's too cheap to trust your life to in the sandbox, etc), and so forth.

Of course, the 99% of us simply like our firearms, and have a variety. Both extremes can be annoying, but we should be united overall, not divided when there are external groups wanting to shut it ALL down.

 

[BC38]

I'm definitely not a huge 'tactical/operator' guy...

But yes, I do believe it's a callback to Elmer Fudd. He's got his double barrel for 'hunting wabbits', and doesn't need anything else. The connotation is that nobody else "needs" anything else, either.
There seems to be a point of derision and conflict coming between the two camps-
one is the hunting guys (OBVIOUSLY not all hunters), who don't use anything else but their bolt guns or such, and look down on the other extreme.
We've seen some comments about AKs and 'cheap commie guns' even in this thread. Plenty more online.

The other extreme, of course, is the guy dressed in paramilitary gear, who critiques various semi-auto (and select fire?) firearms as to their "operator worthiness" or something along those lines. They disparage handguns if they're not Sig Legion Blackwater whatevers or similar, inexpensive ARs (it's too cheap to trust your life to in the sandbox, etc), and so forth.

Of course, the 99% of us simply like our firearms, and have a variety. Both extremes can be annoying, but we should be united overall, not divided when there are external groups wanting to shut it ALL down.

AMEN, and calling each other names (Fudd, mall ninja, etc.) doesn't promote unity.
As Ben Franklin said
"We must all hang together or we shall certainly hang separately".
Divide and conquer is one of the oldest and most effective strategies in the book.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

I don't care what Gun or ammo you use, don't care if you wear tactical gear or just traditional hunting gear. All I care about in this instance is it's one less option available and one more way the government chipped away at our ability to buy ammo. No matter what type of gun owner you are, in my case I'm a newbie pandemic gun buyer and have no shame in saying so. I bought a revolver for home defense and the range. That doesn't mean I don't support people who want to dress like a Navy Seal or those who think a double barrel shotgun is all they need. I may be new to the gun owning community, but I'd hope for all of our sakes we can at least agree that the government banning ammo is a problem, whether we use the particular ammo or not.

The fact this was done by executive action, bypassing Congress is even more frightening to me as a Libertarian. This is an anti-gun advocates dream, because what is preventing bans on other ammo? I see no limiting principle here and that should frighten ALL gun owners new or experienced, at least you would think so… Next time a shooting occurs with ammo from "X" country or next time we want to put sanctions on a given country what's to prevent them from banning their ammo?

 

[biku324]

I understand your sentiment to a point, but let's keep perspective here. There is violent crime due to criminal activity, not due to access to weapons.

Cheap, deadly weapons (especially reliable ones) truly don't cause violent crime, they make it easier to accomplish and exacerbate the damage.

At the same time we were having an 'assault weapons ban' on American weapons, we allowed ComBloc nations to empty their civil guard armories onto our streets. At that time, a Colt AR-15 was beyond the means of most drug-dealing street maggots, but a $69.95 SKS and $2 per box ammo was just fine AND you could throw it away after the crime.

Think of it this way - speed doesn't cause most traffic accidents, but higher speed makes them worse. Cheap, reliable, easy-to-fire deadly weapons don't cause violent crime, they make it easier to commit and multiply the criminal effect.

Never think that Russians, Byielorussians or truly committed Chinese government officials are our friends; they were quite pleased to dump obsolescent weapons on us to make money and to cause us grief.

 

[cmj8591]

What I'm trying to say in so many words is that the information you've provided throughout this entire thread, is, in fact, worthless misinformation.

If you say so.

 

[smoothshooter]

Maybe we will see more Philippine ammo companies taking up the slack.
Russian ammo may be banned, but what about stuff made in the Ukraine, Poland, Hungary, etc.
The Russians could find a way around the regs by continuing to manufacture ammo and having it packaged in a neighboring country.
Fear not.
We will see more Russian ammo soon.

 

[BabaBlueJay]

Maybe we will see more Philippine ammo companies taking up the slack.
Russian ammo may be banned, but what about stuff made in the Ukraine, Poland, Hungary, etc.
The Russians could find a way around the regs by continuing to manufacture ammo and having it packaged in a neighboring country.
Fear not.
We will see more Russian ammo soon.

No… you will not be seeing Russian ammo anytime soon after the ban takes effect.. You can't just repackage it in another country, that still violates the ban.

I don't know how many times I have to say it.. other nations picking up the slack (which will not happen immediately, if at all) is not the point. The point is that the government can now pick a country it wants to sanction and instead of meaningful sanctions like Oil/Natural Gas/Minerals they can place sanctions on their gun/ammo exports because they want to punish domestic gun owners. This has set a horrible precedent and I doubt Russia will be the last country we see this applied to.


This is 100% about screwing over American gun owners, this doesn't hurt Russia's economy in the slightest.

 

[scoobysnacker]

No… you will not be seeing Russian ammo anytime soon after the ban takes effect.. You can't just repackage it in another country, that still violates the ban.

I don't know how many times I have to say it.. other nations picking up the slack (which will not happen immediately, if at all) is not the point. The point is that the government can now pick a country it wants to sanction and instead of meaningful sanctions like Oil/Natural Gas/Minerals they can place sanctions on their gun/ammo exports because they want to punish domestic gun owners. This has set a horrible precedent and I doubt Russia will be the last country we see this applied to.


This is 100% about screwing over American gun owners, this doesn't hurt Russia's economy in the slightest.

Good point about being able to cherry-pick the nation, and place a ban accordingly.

If I were playing for the opposition, I'd target Serbia next. Plenty of questionable politics over the past several decades, and conveniently enough PPU is now the new price basement for a lot of popular calibers. Even better (from that standpoint) is the fact that they are one of the very few that make new ammo in otherwise obsolete calibers (7.65 Argentine, for example).