boykinlp
Member
WOW, I have never heard of these, but for some reason, I like 'em!
Larry
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0zxZqeDzvrY[/ame]
Larry
[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0zxZqeDzvrY[/ame]
Russian PPSH
- Thread starter boykinlp
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WWII ..... Russian Sten
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Typical Russian made simple and simple to maintain.
Perfect for the level of the conscripted not well trained troops they had!
Perfect for the level of the conscripted not well trained troops they had!
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Engine49guy
Member
Uses the Russian Tokarov round,
When Placed in the hands of waves of Russian troops charging German field positions spraying away, someone suddenly realized that perhaps a weapon was needed that fired an intermediate cartridge, not quite as large as the standard issue 8mm Mauser bolt action rifle with a greater rate of fire, and with a greater range and power than the 9mm MP40.
Adding full auto capability and 30 rd magazine for repelling the massive human wave attacks and the Stg45 Sturmgewehr (assault rifle) was born
When Placed in the hands of waves of Russian troops charging German field positions spraying away, someone suddenly realized that perhaps a weapon was needed that fired an intermediate cartridge, not quite as large as the standard issue 8mm Mauser bolt action rifle with a greater rate of fire, and with a greater range and power than the 9mm MP40.
Adding full auto capability and 30 rd magazine for repelling the massive human wave attacks and the Stg45 Sturmgewehr (assault rifle) was born
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Classic WWII eastern front SMG. I remember reading somewere that the german troops like them a lot, and captured ones were little gems for them. I think they use 72 round magazines.
In the 1977 movie "The Iron Cross" James Coburn uses one (he plays the part of a german infantry sargent).
In the 1977 movie "The Iron Cross" James Coburn uses one (he plays the part of a german infantry sargent).
LVSteve
Member
I'd put the PPS in that class. The PPSh was a Cadillac by comparison.
PPS = Sten
PPSh = Early Thompson
The ultimate PPSh setup, even though it is said it was never used in combat.
Innovative, but Flawed, The Russian Fire Hedgehog
Typical Russian made simple and simple to maintain.
/QUOTE]
This gun looks strikingly similar to the Model 31 submachinegun developed by Finland, which the Russians found themselves on the wrong end of during the 1939-40 Winter War. Did the Russians essentially copy the Model 31?
quikdraw67
Member
Pronounced "pay pay shah" IIRC.
The 35rd mags were more reliable than the drum, but it looks cooler with the drum IMHO.
Firing the zippy 7.62×25 Tokarev cartridge, it must have been handy in the close in fighting in Berlin.
The 35rd mags were more reliable than the drum, but it looks cooler with the drum IMHO.
Firing the zippy 7.62×25 Tokarev cartridge, it must have been handy in the close in fighting in Berlin.
Engine49guy
Member
Was married to a girl from Poland in the 1990's, while visiting there I asked her father if he remembered the war, oh yes he said , the Germans (Niemski) came down that road there and occupied the town, a few years later the Russians came down that same road and occupied the town,
Still recall the time he visited the USA, I pulled an AK 47 from the safe and showed him , his eyes lit up and he immediately said
"PEH PEH SHEH".
LVSteve
Member
Typical Russian made simple and simple to maintain.
/QUOTE]
This gun looks strikingly similar to the Model 31 submachinegun developed by Finland, which the Russians found themselves on the wrong end of during the 1939-40 Winter War. Did the Russians essentially copy the Model 31?
A number of subguns developed between the world wars look similar. The Beretta Model 38 looks similar.
The PPSh was developed from the PPD. The PPD was expensive and time consuming to make as it used a milled receiver. The PPSh uses a pressed steel receiver. The later PPS was even more simplified.
The Russians did copy the Finnish drum design after getting shredded in the Winter War.
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Shoot a Swedish K and then we will talk.
AJ
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Not A PPSH, but close..........
Not a PPSH, but close a Finnish Suomi KP - 31 : Suomi KP/-31 - Wikipedia
A friend gave this to me the other day. Brought it home and no place to hang it. So I gave it to a friend (part time gun smith) who loves Russian and Finnish items. No idea who or why it was cut up. But I couldn't afford to feed it if it was whole!!
Not a PPSH, but close a Finnish Suomi KP - 31 : Suomi KP/-31 - Wikipedia
A friend gave this to me the other day. Brought it home and no place to hang it. So I gave it to a friend (part time gun smith) who loves Russian and Finnish items. No idea who or why it was cut up. But I couldn't afford to feed it if it was whole!!
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I had access to a PPS with a folding stock supposedly made in Stalingrad during the siege. It had two deep rifling grooves, fired from an open bolt. The bolt slid on a guide pin down the center of the sheet metal tube breech. One large spring powered the bolt forward to fire and served as the recoil spring. The trigger was basically a wedge that locked the bolt back with a spring to bring the trigger/sear up into place when the trigger was released. 3 moving parts, the bolt, the trigger, and the extractor. It had another spring to hold the folding buttstock in the folded or locked down position.
It would squirt out 35 7.65 rounds with awesome reliability and keep them all on a garbage can at 50 ft. in burst of 5 to 10 rounds.
It would squirt out 35 7.65 rounds with awesome reliability and keep them all on a garbage can at 50 ft. in burst of 5 to 10 rounds.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
Used in significant quantities by Chinese troops during the Korean War. Very effective at close quarters.
xtrtsqrt11
Member
Shot one once at a local machine gun shoot. Very cool, controllable and accurate. I still like the MP5 better (lots of .40 experience) or even the UMP .40 (lot's of rounds down range with that sub gun as well).
I think that 7.65 round is amongst the best choice you can make in an SMG caliber since it gives you a little more reach than 9x19. And the drum in the PPSH seems to last a long time with 3-5 shot bursts. Imagine that...
Edited for typo...
I think that 7.65 round is amongst the best choice you can make in an SMG caliber since it gives you a little more reach than 9x19. And the drum in the PPSH seems to last a long time with 3-5 shot bursts. Imagine that...
Edited for typo...
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Years ago I went up to the Second Chance Bowling Pin Shooting match in Michigan. There was a separate range set up for renting automatic weapons. I got to shoot a drum full of shells out of a PPSH submachine gun, and it was amazingly accurate. A lot of fun to shoot.
Typical Russian made simple and simple to maintain.
/QUOTE]
This gun looks strikingly similar to the Model 31 submachinegun developed by Finland, which the Russians found themselves on the wrong end of during the 1939-40 Winter War. Did the Russians essentially copy the Model 31?
In concept, absolutely. The tactics of the Finns greatly influenced the Russians.
Yet the Kp31 was all milled and machined while the PPSh-41 was essentially all stamped. The drum was certainly a copy.
The Kp31 has much greater range and accuracy and a a good cyclic rate for CQB. The Finns decimated the Russians with them particularly in ambushes and fast hit and run attacks.
The PPSh-41 is much cruder and lacks the range of the Kp31 but was very effective at close ranges.
Having owned and shot both, I have to say I prefer the KP31.
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AJ
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Scharfschuetzer
Member
When I was at the SFQC weapons course, we trained on many of the WWII SMGs, including the PPSH, the Souma, the MP40, Thompson, etc.
The PPSH was the first firearm that I ever saw with a muzzle brake on it. It was pretty simple and I'm not sure that it did much, but I thought that it was a pretty cool idea.
The average Russian soldier in WWII was issued two drum magazine (per the TO&E) for the PPSH if memory serves me correctly. That was about 142 rounds as I recall. Those two drum mags would go pretty fast without good fire control. The later PPS 43 box mags (as seen in the video) will work well in the earlier PPSH, although I've not seen Russian WWII photos of them being used as such.
The PPSH was the first firearm that I ever saw with a muzzle brake on it. It was pretty simple and I'm not sure that it did much, but I thought that it was a pretty cool idea.
The average Russian soldier in WWII was issued two drum magazine (per the TO&E) for the PPSH if memory serves me correctly. That was about 142 rounds as I recall. Those two drum mags would go pretty fast without good fire control. The later PPS 43 box mags (as seen in the video) will work well in the earlier PPSH, although I've not seen Russian WWII photos of them being used as such.
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