Russia's 'Pearl Harbor'

[lihpster]

It would be great if we could talk about today and not the past of decades ago, yes? I mean we could go on and on about the sordid past of the USA about slaves, Indians, child labor, discriminations, Jim crow, but why do that. Today we face something far worse, nuclear destruction of the Earth.

Sorry. We can't talk about this because you believe the Russian Apologists totally and flat out refuse to believe any dissent from that, even when the evidence is presented to you. If you are so sure that Russia is such a utopia, why don't you move there? Just buy a ticket and get on a plane. I'm sure they will treat with all the love and respect they show their own citizens.
Russia invaded Ukraine. Period. Nato did not go in and force their neighbors to join Nato, they came willingly as they are so afraid of living under the control of that utopia you seem so fond of.

 

[Jay Hall]

Guess pregnant women are threatening Putin.

KYIV, June 10 (Reuters) - Russia launched one of its largest air strikes on Kyiv in over three years of war and struck a maternity ward in the southern city of Odesa in attacks that killed at least three people, officials said on Tuesday. https://www.reuters.com/world/russi...maternity-ward-odesa-ukraine-says-2025-06-10/

Biku, I believe this is unfounded war propaganda, Putin now going out to kill little babies, hate him, hate him,,send more money and arms from your treasury, which is broke, to Zelensky......on and on....$$$$$,,death and death.

 

[biku324]

I have studied this situation, war, with great interest and depth and conclude that Russia views the threat from Ukraine and NATO, USA is an existential one, and Russia will do all that is needed to assure their very own existence. This is almost exactly as the USA viewed the existence of Soviet rockets in Cuba, nuclear capable, during the JFK Cuban crisis where the USA was willing to go to nuclear war over the threat. Russia does not want or need ALL of Ukraine, just the threat to its existence ended and WW-3 can be avoided. Peace is very possible.

I completely disagree with your long-distance analysis and each of your other posts here, which precisely reflect Russian disinformation as identified by the Rand Corporation on the right and the Brookings Institute on the left. Citations are in a prior post.

I just left a post on Russia's border early this year and am completely well-acquainted with facts on the ground. Pardon me if this is my last reply to this kind of disinformation, no matter how well-intended.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2022/09/debunking-russian-lies-about-biolabs-at-upcoming-un.html

Popular podcasters spread Russian disinformation about Ukraine biolabs

www.brookings.edu

 

[Petrov]

Petrov, the old Soviet Union is gone, did you know that? Today it is Russia and far different and working to be better and better and some Governments around the globe find that very threatening and doing all they can to destroy it.

Real question, is this sarcasm?

 

[Jay Hall]

I completely disagree with your long-distance analysis and each of your other posts here, which precisely reflect Russian disinformation as identified by the Rand Corporation on the right and the Brookings Institute on the left. Citations are in a prior post.

I just left a post on Russia's border early this year and am completely well-acquainted with facts on the ground. Pardon me if this is my last reply to this kind of disinformation, no matter how well-intended.

https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2022/09/debunking-russian-lies-about-biolabs-at-upcoming-un.html

Popular podcasters spread Russian disinformation about Ukraine biolabs

www.brookings.edu

biku, that is indeed your choice to make.

 

[biku324]

I'd suspect that existence of a ten-page thread that details Russian aggression and atrocities will attract the attention of folks who really don't want the thread to continue. There has been at least one attempt to have mods lock the thread - kudos to the mods for carefully evaluating what has been said and determing whether or not the thread complies with Forum Rules on politics.

 

[Jay Hall]

Sorry. We can't talk about this because you believe the Russian Apologists totally and flat out refuse to believe any dissent from that, even when the evidence is presented to you. If you are so sure that Russia is such a utopia, why don't you move there? Just buy a ticket and get on a plane. I'm sure they will treat with all the love and respect they show their own citizens.
Russia invaded Ukraine. Period. Nato did not go in and force their neighbors to join Nato, they came willingly as they are so afraid of living under the control of that utopia you seem so fond of.

I respect your opinion, respect mine please.

 

[Exmilcop]

I have studied this situation, war, with great interest and depth and conclude that Russia views the threat from Ukraine and NATO, USA is an existential one, and Russia will do all that is needed to assure their very own existence. This is almost exactly as the USA viewed the existence of Soviet rockets in Cuba, nuclear capable, during the JFK Cuban crisis where the USA was willing to go to nuclear war over the threat. Russia does not want or need ALL of Ukraine, just the threat to its existence ended and WW-3 can be avoided. Peace is very possible.

You've "studied this situation with great interest and depth"?? Really? Let's just mention a few flaws in your analysis. Firstly, are you aware that Putin is so afraid of NATO that he once put out feelers about becoming a member? If you study the requirements for memberships you'll quickly understand why that whole concept died on the vine. Also worth mentioning, since Russia's invasion, the NATO borders with Russia have expanded! If Putin is so afraid of NATO, why aren't troops on those borders? Equating the Cuban missiles and NATO's presence on Russian borders is foolish in the extreme. Since it's inception, NATO (a purely defensive alliance) has not initiated a single aggressive military action. Not one! Look at Russia in comparison. Putin wants the eradication of Ukraine as a separate entity and he wants the untapped wealth that Zelensky was going to use to elevate the standard of living of the Ukrainian state and her people. Ethnic cleansing and cultural extinction is happening to Ukrainians in the occupied territories. You've got a lot more studying to do.

 

[Jay Hall]

You've "studied this situation with great interest and depth"?? Really? Let's just mention a few flaws in your analysis. Firstly, are you aware that Putin is so afraid of NATO that he once put out feelers about becoming a member? If you study the requirements for memberships you'll quickly understand why that whole concept died on the vine. Also worth mentioning, since Russia's invasion, the NATO borders with Russia have expanded! If Putin is so afraid of NATO, why aren't troops on those borders? Equating the Cuban missiles and NATO's presence on Russian borders is foolish in the extreme. Since it's inception, NATO (a purely defensive alliance) has not initiated a single aggressive military action. Not one! Look at Russia in comparison. Putin wants the eradication of Ukraine as a separate entity and he wants the untapped wealth that Zelensky was going to use to elevate the standard of living of the Ukrainian state and her people. Ethnic cleansing and cultural extinction is happening to Ukrainians in the occupied territories. You've got a lot more studying to do.

Steve, I appreciate your thoughts and reply, but with respect, I must say that you are Very mistaken in almost ALL you have claimed. Russia did show a serious interest in joining NATO during the Clinton administration but was turned down, a very clear indication that Russia was indeed the target of the ever expanding NATO!

 

[UncleEd]

One thing about Putin's Russia, all of his opposition seems to be dying to get out.

 

[Petrov]

Steve, I appreciate your thoughts and reply, but with respect, I must say that you are Very mistaken in almost ALL you have claimed. Russia did show a serious interest in joining NATO during the Clinton administration but was turned down, a very clear indication that Russia was indeed the target of the ever expanding NATO!

You would be correct about Putin asking that, you also happen to gloss over the fact that he was engaged in several genocidal campaigns against his neighbors when he asked. EU an Nato kinda get weird about that....

 

[Petrov]

One thing about Putin's Russia, all of his opposition seems to be dying to get out.

To be fair they really install those windows in russia on a really low level making them dangerous...

 

[Petrov]

Steve, I appreciate your thoughts and reply, but with respect, I must say that you are Very mistaken in almost ALL you have claimed. Russia did show a serious interest in joining NATO during the Clinton administration but was turned down, a very clear indication that Russia was indeed the target of the ever expanding NATO!

I am replying mostly for the benefit of other people who are interested in the historical background and context.
After USSR fell apart russia formed CIS with other countries around it.
Wikipedia link: CIS states
The way CIS was organized and ratified russia could not join NATO without explicit approval of other CIS states or abandoning CIS treaty.
In effect it would have backstabbed its own "allies".
As I mentioned previously there was several hot spots where various "stans" were really going at it engaging in ethnic cleansing and genocide with russians picking "winners".

Jay I am curious where do you get your information from?
As you can tell by my screen name I was there when it all went down. Not to brag or name drop but my great grandfathers home had a red phone with no rotary dial on it if you know you know. Both my mother and my grandfather and my great grandfather were involved with the russian ministry of defense.
Sometimes I read some of your posts and I think that you are reading from a script or something, it usually follows the same bouncing ball. Denial, bio labs, nato encroaching and is attacking russia and so on.
Unfortunately I am familiar with this script because my sperm donor ( I sure as hell wont call him a father) kinda pioneered this in russia. First he was pushing the "globo homo" propaganda in printed media especially the red star military publication in russia but he is a computer guy and is VERY smart and talented. He probably wrote the book on russian bot farms. Cant know for sure since I disowned him.

 

[Exmilcop]

Steve, I appreciate your thoughts and reply, but with respect, I must say that you are Very mistaken in almost ALL you have claimed. Russia did show a serious interest in joining NATO during the Clinton administration but was turned down, a very clear indication that Russia was indeed the target of the ever expanding NATO!

???? Actually Sir, it's you have a total misinterpretation of events. Russia was denied consideration for NATO membership because it's a kleptocratic dictatorship. Please check out the criteria that must be met for NATO membership and you'll understand. Think of it this way ( if it makes understanding easier), what would happen if an avowed nazi wanted to convert to judaism but still cling to their ideology? How do you think they'd be received?

 

[Jay Hall]

I am replying mostly for the benefit of other people who are interested in the historical background and context.
After USSR fell apart russia formed CIS with other countries around it.
Wikipedia link: CIS states
The way CIS was organized and ratified russia could not join NATO without explicit approval of other CIS states or abandoning CIS treaty.
In effect it would have backstabbed its own "allies".
As I mentioned previously there was several hot spots where various "stans" were really going at it engaging in ethnic cleansing and genocide with russians picking "winners".

Jay I am curious where do you get your information from?
As you can tell by my screen name I was there when it all went down. Not to brag or name drop but my great grandfathers home had a red phone with no rotary dial on it if you know you know. Both my mother and my grandfather and my great grandfather were involved with the russian ministry of defense.
Sometimes I read some of your posts and I think that you are reading from a script or something, it usually follows the same bouncing ball. Denial, bio labs, nato encroaching and is attacking russia and so on.
Unfortunately I am familiar with this script because my sperm donor ( I sure as hell wont call him a father) kinda pioneered this in russia. First he was pushing the "globo homo" propaganda in printed media especially the red star military publication in russia but he is a computer guy and is VERY smart and talented. He probably wrote the book on russian bot farms. Cant know for sure since I disowned him.

Petrov, thank you for your fine reply. I have close friends who are Ukrainian, Russian, Palestinian, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, I respect them all and more. I do much study and research, more than is healthy, and I then let those facts and actions speak for themselves as to what I learn, no matter if it disturbs my friends or not, or makes them happy or not, I still love them all and only want the best for all humans.

 

[Jay Hall]

You would be correct about Putin asking that, you also happen to gloss over the fact that he was engaged in several genocidal campaigns against his neighbors when he asked. EU an Nato kinda get weird about that....

Thank you, but I disagree.

 

[Petrov]

Thank you, but I disagree.

You are absolutely welcome to. Wonderful thing about these forums is that every one can state their opinion.