S&W 1076 10mm FBI
- Thread starter bongi11
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10mm
When I was in Quantico in 1991 this is what i remember, it was only issued for a short time, then the switch to glock 17. The "lite" 10mm did not work very well, they never could get the spring weight and timing down Proper main spring and recoil spring work together, by the time S&W figured it out, the 10mm was dropped. You see the gun was designed for 10mm, the FBI wanted the round with lower recoil, so function went out the window. oh well here comes 40 cal.
When I was in Quantico in 1991 this is what i remember, it was only issued for a short time, then the switch to glock 17. The "lite" 10mm did not work very well, they never could get the spring weight and timing down Proper main spring and recoil spring work together, by the time S&W figured it out, the 10mm was dropped. You see the gun was designed for 10mm, the FBI wanted the round with lower recoil, so function went out the window. oh well here comes 40 cal.
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Congratulations on your 1076. It looks to be in great condition.
Your pistol has factory night sights, checkered front strap, and no magazine disconnect; these are all features that would be found on a former FBI 1076. However, the grip is the standard straight grip and not the FBI palm swell grip it should have if it's an FBI gun. The grip, of course, could have been changed by a previous owner. There are reports of FBI pistols having straight and arched grips on them, but I believe these were probably changed by subsequent owners after they were released to the public. The palm swell grip is the thickest of the three grip types and is my least favorite. It would have been one of the first things I changed on an FBI gun.
Grips aside, the real problem is that some agencies ordered their 1076 pistols with all the same features as the FBI guns, so the only definitive way of knowing if it is a former FBI pistol is by verifying it with a factory letter. On the positive side, if you invest the $50.00 in a factory letter and it proves to be a former FBI 1076, it's value will be substantially increased.
Your pistol has factory night sights, checkered front strap, and no magazine disconnect; these are all features that would be found on a former FBI 1076. However, the grip is the standard straight grip and not the FBI palm swell grip it should have if it's an FBI gun. The grip, of course, could have been changed by a previous owner. There are reports of FBI pistols having straight and arched grips on them, but I believe these were probably changed by subsequent owners after they were released to the public. The palm swell grip is the thickest of the three grip types and is my least favorite. It would have been one of the first things I changed on an FBI gun.
Grips aside, the real problem is that some agencies ordered their 1076 pistols with all the same features as the FBI guns, so the only definitive way of knowing if it is a former FBI pistol is by verifying it with a factory letter. On the positive side, if you invest the $50.00 in a factory letter and it proves to be a former FBI 1076, it's value will be substantially increased.
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TheGreatGonzo
US Veteran
The Glock 17 has never been an official issue pistol for the FBI. After the Gun Vault stopped issuing the 1076's, the Sig P228 was issued. Perhaps you are thinking of the currently issued duty weapon, which is the Glock 22.
To the OP: If you do a search of FBI in this forum, you will find a LOT of threads on the FBI 1076. There are some folks on the board who are truly experts on that particular piece. They are a great resource. Congratulations on finding a nice combat pistol.
Gonzo
The best of the lot, imo-----> http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/85509-fbi-1076-a.html
dacoontz
Member
Only way to truly know
I had the same situation and paid the $50 and mine was not an FBI model. The only thing that I have seen to positively confirm the 1076 as an FBI model without having S&W authenticate it was a serial number with the prefix of "TEU." It doesn't appear that yours has this, so if you want to know for sure then ask S&W or else you don't have me convinced. Either way, who cares you got a 1076 and that's good enough. It is my hands down favorite. I just wish I was a bigger guy so I could carry it concealed.
I had the same situation and paid the $50 and mine was not an FBI model. The only thing that I have seen to positively confirm the 1076 as an FBI model without having S&W authenticate it was a serial number with the prefix of "TEU." It doesn't appear that yours has this, so if you want to know for sure then ask S&W or else you don't have me convinced. Either way, who cares you got a 1076 and that's good enough. It is my hands down favorite. I just wish I was a bigger guy so I could carry it concealed.
Loomis Guard
Member
Is it true that the real problem with the 10mm was most agents could not qualify with it??? So Smith dreamed up the 10mm short (40 S+W)!!!!
L.G.
L.G.
Gary1911A1
Guest
With the FBI Light 10MM Ammo they used I don't think that was the problem. I think size and likely even more the weight of a steel frame pistol just didn't fit well with their suits and thin belts.
Probably a combination of the 10mm "FBI" reduced load could be duplicated in a shorter case along with that allowing a smaller framed pistol. Same performance as the heavier, larger 10 mm pistol in a smaller, lighter 40 S&W pistol? Death knell for the 10 mm as a Law Enforcement round. Similar to what killed the round a lot of savvy guys considered the perfect police round, a couple of generations ago.
Several experts of the day (Bill Jordan and Skeeter Skelton, among them AIR), considered a 41 Magnum would be the perfect police revolver, with a 200 gr or so bullet at 900-1000 fps. After some lobbying and arm twisting, two new pistols and a cartridge in two loadings emerged:
The S&W Mods 57 & 58 and the 41 Magnum cartridge in a hunting and "Police" load.
The S&W Mod 57, duplicating the features of the Model 29, and the fixed sight, heavy barrel S&W Mod 58. The 57 was the top of the line finished, hunting and all around version, with about 75% of the recoil of it's bigger brother. The Mod 58 was the working cop's sidearm.
In the 41 Magnum, initially there were two loadings: a 210gr at arond 1400 fps for hunting and a lighter 210 gr load at around 1000 fps, for Law Enforcement.
And there was when the trouble started.
Cops would buy the 58 (OR 57) and stuff it with the high powered load, instead of the carefully balanced and thought out "Cop Load", thinking "more is better." And as in a generation later with the 10 mm, it kicked violently, making it difficult to impossible for the AVERAGE cop to qualify. So what COULD have been an effective gun ammo combo in the last decades of the revolver in Law Enforcement, was aborted about as quickly as the 10 mm.
For those who still like a revolver, a good solid Model 58, with the right load, is STILL a viable choice, nearly 50 years later.
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sigp220.45
US Veteran
There is almost as much disinformation about the 1076 as there is about the Miami Shootout.
I came in the Bureau in 1991 and was in one of the first classes to go through after the 1076 was recalled. We were issued Sig 226s off of the DEA's existing contract. Sigs were the issue handgun (both 226s and 228s) until Glock won the contract in the mid 90s.
The 1076 was very popular with street agents. Guys that had them could keep them for quite awhile after they stopped being issued. I was qualifying an Agent on his until 2005, when the FTU demanded its return and threatened his pay if he didn't send it in.
The FBI-lite ammo was all that was ever issued. There was never a problem with guys not being able to qualify with full power 10mm since it was never issued. The FTU tested a bunch of different bullet weights and velocities and settled on the 180/950 because it did everything they wanted it to do in the tests. That was all that was ever issued. Later, the bullet weight was bumped to 190 grains. That ammo is what I carry in my MP5/10.
I never heard anyone complain about the gun being too heavy or too hard to conceal.
From what I recall, the problems with the 1076 started with an incident where a guy on a bank robbery arrest found his 1076 was locked up solid afterwards - no shots were fired, but he couldn't retract the slide.
I've qualified lots of guys on their 1076s - I never saw one malfunction on the range. Guys that had them generally outshot everybody else. The guns were scarily accurate. I had an FBI 1076 that I bought when they were offered to agents for $300 - it worked fine with anything I fed it, from 10mm Silvertips to .40 S&W ammo. Yep, .40s worked just fine, though I've since heard its not a great idea.
There are others here with more experience with all of the drama surrounding the issue and recall of the Bureau's last Smith and Wesson. I hope they chime in. But I can state that in my experience the 1076 was a great gun, and most had to be pried from the fingers of Agents who dearly loved them.
I came in the Bureau in 1991 and was in one of the first classes to go through after the 1076 was recalled. We were issued Sig 226s off of the DEA's existing contract. Sigs were the issue handgun (both 226s and 228s) until Glock won the contract in the mid 90s.
The 1076 was very popular with street agents. Guys that had them could keep them for quite awhile after they stopped being issued. I was qualifying an Agent on his until 2005, when the FTU demanded its return and threatened his pay if he didn't send it in.
The FBI-lite ammo was all that was ever issued. There was never a problem with guys not being able to qualify with full power 10mm since it was never issued. The FTU tested a bunch of different bullet weights and velocities and settled on the 180/950 because it did everything they wanted it to do in the tests. That was all that was ever issued. Later, the bullet weight was bumped to 190 grains. That ammo is what I carry in my MP5/10.
I never heard anyone complain about the gun being too heavy or too hard to conceal.
From what I recall, the problems with the 1076 started with an incident where a guy on a bank robbery arrest found his 1076 was locked up solid afterwards - no shots were fired, but he couldn't retract the slide.
I've qualified lots of guys on their 1076s - I never saw one malfunction on the range. Guys that had them generally outshot everybody else. The guns were scarily accurate. I had an FBI 1076 that I bought when they were offered to agents for $300 - it worked fine with anything I fed it, from 10mm Silvertips to .40 S&W ammo. Yep, .40s worked just fine, though I've since heard its not a great idea.
There are others here with more experience with all of the drama surrounding the issue and recall of the Bureau's last Smith and Wesson. I hope they chime in. But I can state that in my experience the 1076 was a great gun, and most had to be pried from the fingers of Agents who dearly loved them.
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TheGreatGonzo
US Veteran
I have to agree 100%. I only gave up my 1076 when I was forced to. I had no problems concealing it, even with the rather crappy FBI issued holster. If I really had to go smaller (and often off-duty), I carried an approved S&W 3953. The 1076 was an absolute tack-driver. It was far more accurate than I was capable of being.
Gonzo
dmc8163
Member
Thank you sigp220.45.
1911ES
Member
Very nice pick up..... and looks to be in great condition.
glypnir
Member
In my opinion, that 50 bucks is a bargain. Roy certainly always seems to have a significant backlog of letters to send out.
Isn't a Colt letter $100?
Isn't a Colt letter $100?
Yes, the last time I got a Colt letter, which was a few years ago, it was $100.
I was doing a little research on the 10mm and stumbled upon your posting - i found this article that states the FBI models had the phrase "Caution-Capable of Firing With Magazine Removed." stamped on them. Chuck Hawk gets credit for all this info - right or wrong - just passing on the link
Smith & Wesson Model 1076
Smith & Wesson Model 1076
Have gun-will travel
Member
1076 S&W
At one time Raleigh,NC officers were issued 1076's . About 7 or so years ago after switching to a S&W 45 several of the guns were found in the armory and were taken to the local L E distributor .I happened to bet there when they came in.I got a brand new never issued in the box 1076 for $400 plus tax .What a steal....
At one time Raleigh,NC officers were issued 1076's . About 7 or so years ago after switching to a S&W 45 several of the guns were found in the armory and were taken to the local L E distributor .I happened to bet there when they came in.I got a brand new never issued in the box 1076 for $400 plus tax .What a steal....
Old Corp
Member
Being a Raleigh PD retiree, I have my old 1076. It was succeeded by the 4566 (was given one of those at retirement)
All we ever carried was the Federal 180 gr., ~950 fps 'Lite' load.
The guns worked great, scores were good. Several officer-involved shootings showed street performance to be very good.
The department had the gun from about 1990 to about 1999. What became a real issue was ammo costs, which became super-high.
All we ever carried was the Federal 180 gr., ~950 fps 'Lite' load.
The guns worked great, scores were good. Several officer-involved shootings showed street performance to be very good.
The department had the gun from about 1990 to about 1999. What became a real issue was ammo costs, which became super-high.
dmc8163
Member
I also live in the Raleigh area and collect law enforcement 1076s. I have been looking for a Raleigh PD 1076 for years without success. I have found some of the Raleigh PD 1076 distributor paperwork. D
