S&W 1911PC vs. Colt gold cup Natl Match

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I tried researching this this under search, and I did not see anything specifically related to a comparison between the 2 firearms. I am looking to get a quality 45ACP target pistol. Anybody have a any pros and cons between the 2 pistols? I know there is a money difference, but that is not the issue. If there is any issue at all, I prefer blue to stainless, but performance is the real question....Thanks
 
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Older versions of the 1911PC, particularly those with the Wilson rear sight and the Messerschmitt-type barrel bushing, are really nice guns and I would prefer one of those hands down over any Gold Cup IF you are going to shoot the gun. If you are going to warehouse it, the Colt might be a better "investment."

I especially despise the old Eliason/Accro-type rear sight of the Gold Cup, which was frequently trouble and presented a quirky sight picture, IMO.

The S&W should easily out-shoot the Gold Cup, and has a few other features I prefer, like front strap checkering, standard width trigger, cross dovetail front sight (rather than a swaged tennon), Commander style hammer and good beavertail/duckbill grip safety, and a few more.

IMO, for a gun that will be used, there is just no real comparison - but, as I said, just my opinion. :D
 
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My opinion says Gold Cup NM all the way. I love mine. I understand that the new model is as good as the 70 was or maybe better.
 
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I was going to post an update to a thread I started a month ago about my new SW1911PC sku#170343 purchased on May 12th. I have surpassed 1000 rounds and to say I'm happy is an understatement. The PC gun is fantastic. Accuracy with 230g FMJ RN and 200g LSWC is exceptional. The trigger was nice from the get go, but it's gotten even better. The OEM Checkmate magazines will feed both bullet profiles without a hint of trouble. Fit and finish is top notch with the only exception being the rather fragile black finish on the barrel which on mine after 1000 rounds is almost non existant on the barrel hood and the area contacted by the Briley Bushing. That doesn't bother me at all as it's a shooter. The slide to frame fit and bushing fit are still very tight. Over all pleased as could be and I'm very happy I bought it.
I also own and shoot a Colt Gold Cup Trophy. I purchased this pistol new in 2009. It's also a great shooter and I'm quite happy with it as well. I find it just as accurate as the S&W. Comparing feature for feature the S&W is a better buy. Ambi safety, front/rear grip checkering, mag well, G10 stocks etc etc that the Colt doesn't offer on the Gold Cup Trophy. I find the stainless finish on the Colt nicer with the polished flats on the slide and frame, but the matte stainless on the S&W is still pleasing to the eye and it's quite easy to clean. Well worth the money, and in my parts the cost is about the same. You can't go wrong with either pistol and I'm happy to own and shoot both. Here is the obligatory pic.

 
I have owned and worked on a number of 45's from a number of manufacturers, including an old one made in Argentine under Colt patent. What makes the Model 70 Colts desirable, in many people's minds, is the lack the firing pin block (think S&W Revolver lock here in terms of the amount of love given this feature), the lack of which enables even average smiths to get remarkable trigger pulls. Good to great smiths however can match, or come darn close on most Series 80 guns, it just takes more work. And much like the S&W lock, the firing pin block can be disabled, as in removed, but very few smiths will do it because unlike the S&W lock, removal does constitute a safety issue when the gun is being carried or in use.

But I digress. Any 45 with a good barrel and repeatable lock up will likely out shoot the shooter. The other end of the equation though is feeding and ejecting. The Gold cup of old was limited to ball ammo, in this respect. That's not to say you couldn't use semi cutters or hollow points in them, just that they were not designed with those bullet configurations in mind and often required modifications to make feeding reliable. This is the point where some Gold Cup owner will pipe up and say "Mine always shot anything I fed it." That's nice, but you were lucky. One of the problems of 45 feeding was/is different designs where the feeding ramp is incorporated with the barrel, vs. the design where it is a part of the gun frame.
The integrated feed ramp is the preferred set up. The other major cause of problems is the magazine. The lips and follower on 45 mags are critical. The round has to stay in the mag long enough for the fired round to be ejected, then, as the slide moves forward, the round has to clear the magazine lips after the slide is past the ejector, have the bullet nose ride up the feed ramp as the cartridge rim slides up under the extractor. Fixing flaws in this ballet can drive an inexperienced gunsmith to drink. Even experienced ones have been known to pitch the troublesome magazine rather than waste time trying to adjust or fix them.

Today's 45's have far fewer of these issues as machining techniques have made tremendous advancements and negated a lot of the hand fitting of old. So once again, someone has asked what time it is, and I have explained how to build a clock. :D

OP, either choice should produce satisfactory results, keeping two things in mind: most 45's do not come with a target quality trigger until you get in to the high end guns, and not even a $4000 custom special can overcome bad ammo.
 
Thanks everyone for the good information and input. It is much appreciated. I believe I will look to the Gold Cup. Why?? several reasons. 1. I think it has more capability than I am a shooter. 2. I want a blued gun. 3. I think the Colt name will retain more value over time. 4. Colt has had financial difficulty and had to reorganize. I would like to support that effort of an old company
 
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Thanks everyone for the good information and input. It is much appreciated. I believe I will look to the Gold Cup. Why?? several reasons. 1. I think it has more capability than I am a shooter. 2. I want a blued gun. 3. I think the Colt name will retain more value over time. 4. Colt has had financial difficulty and had to reorganize. I would like to support that effort of an old company

Old, really old, Colt pistolsmith here. IMHO, if you are not going for a used Colt NM, 70 Series, stop and rethink what you just said about Colt and their present predicament. The odds of getting a 'good' one just went down considerably. Any mod that you would want done to tune a 'tack driving' 45 acp target gun can be done to a SS Smith. Don't like the SS look? Duracoat it yourself, or have it professionally Cerakoted your choice of color. I have given two S&W M 1911s target tuning in the last two years and am totally impressed. Not so much with the last few years of Colt production. IMHO, S&W's external extractor is a big improvement of JMB's design. ..............

BTW, are you buying a gun to shoot or a gun that will be a piece of artwork jewelry to be kept in the safe?
 
Old, really old, Colt pistolsmith here. IMHO, if you are not going for a used Colt NM, 70 Series, stop and rethink what you just said about Colt and their present predicament. The odds of getting a 'good' one just went down considerably. Any mod that you would want done to tune a 'tack driving' 45 acp target gun can be done to a SS Smith. Don't like the SS look? Duracoat it yourself, or have it professionally Cerakoted your choice of color. I have given two S&W M 1911s target tuning in the last two years and am totally impressed. Not so much with the last few years of Colt production. IMHO, S&W's external extractor is a big improvement of JMB's design. ..............

BTW, are you buying a gun to shoot or a gun that will be a piece of artwork jewelry to be kept in the safe?


Thanks for the input. I might have thought the effort to regain market share might have been better. I own Smith and Wesson's, and some stainless. I just would have opted for a blued gun. To answer your question, I intend to shoot it
 
Interesting insight on this thread. Although I can't provide any insight to the Colt. I can say when I held the PC 1911 and dry fired it, it was impressive.

Cory
 
Folks, Has anyone heard if S&W has remade ( 4th Gen?) 5946's ? My local Cabelas has six brand new ones that just came in today. The night sight shows post 2003. Smith book has them built 1991-1999. These are in every way brand new. Machining looks incredible almost Performance Center quality with the trigger to boot! thanks, Tom
 
I go with the Gold Cup. Here is my 1977 (Series 70, as per Big Cholla) manufacture specimen (I just found the vintage cartridge boxes and shells at a yard sale, and threw them in for looks... I shoot mostly my own reloads):



I have never had any problem with the sights. It shoots better than I can, but I will concede that there are probably lots of guns that can shoot better than I can.

Best Regards, Les
 
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That is a tough decision. Last year I bought one of the new Series 70 Colt Gold Cup National Match pistols. It is under the one I bought new in 1979. The fit and finish on the general line Colts has been impressive in the last 5 years or so.



The new 2015 Series 70 GCNM was $1.1K. I also bought a S&W 1911PC pistol earlier in the year and its fired shell casing dates it to 2014 production. New it was a $1.3K ouch.



It is a little more money than the new Colt but out of the box the S&W had a little better trigger. Of course one could invest a hundred $ or so in the Colt and have a same or better trigger and be at the same $ level. I have had neither pistol in a Ransom Rest yet but I get the same results with either off hand or over bags at 25 yards.

On another note and thanks to a friend who had bought a Ruger Precision Rifle and wanted money for a nice scope quick I bought a new SS Gold Cup Trophy from him for a nice price. Calling Colt it was made in Oct. 2015. What amazed me is shooting it side by side with my new Series 70 GCNM the triggers are about the same. The Trophy, which is a Series 80 pistol has a trigger that breaks a couple ounces more when measured with my Lyman gauge but still has a great trigger and I was getting the same results shooting them next to each other on the same day with the same ammo. Picture.



Bottom line I do not see a clear winner between the two pistols (Colt vs S&W). Maybe what feels or looks better to you. If you love the checkering of the front of the grip then there is a clear winner. I did not like the looks of the grips on the S&W but after shooting it they feel good to me so I have left them on the pistol.
 
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