S&W #2 Old Army Japanese Markings

[glowe]

I suspected that you had information indicating shipments in the 62,000 serial number range, but am I correct in assuming they were not sent in large blocks and many in that same range would have been sent elsewhere??

 

[opoefc]

Gary, Hard to say, but if I were making assumptions ( which is always dangerous with S&Ws ) I would assume that probably shipment's/ sales of S&Ws by agents and S&W distributors to Japan were not in large blocks. More like a couple dozen per shipment, I would guess. ( The large blocks of S&Ws shipped to Japan by the factory occurred from orders placed by S&W distributors. They were mostly the NM#3s & revolving rifles. ) Most of the info. on Japanese marked Model 2 Armies in the serial range of 62000 comes from Japanese archives of the 1870s and their recordings of guns owned by the Prefectures or military armories. They didn't record the source for the Model 2s, however. Also, there are many other makes of firearms in their records besides S&Ws. I recently examined a civil war era Spencer carbine with Tokyo Arsenal stamps, plus the late John Ottoman once showed me a nicely done copy of a Model 2 that was made by the Japanese. Ed.

 

[seinen]

Mnrivrat,

The markings (kanji) on the backstrap of your S&W No. 2 are both hand-applied and Japanese. They read, from top to bottom, as follows: "壬申 – 千二百二十一番 – 名東縣", which translate "1871 (Western Year) - No. 1,221 - Myodo Prefecture." Myodo Prefecture was once located in the Shikoku region, but only existed between 1871 and 1880. It became the current Tokushima Prefecture on March 2, 1880.

I can't offer any conjecture as to its supposed use on Okinawa, however, in the late stages of WWII, lots of weapons expedients, including some S&W Mod. 3 revolvers, did turn up there.

C/

 

[mnrivrat]

Seinen,

You will never know just how grateful I am for your information. Please accept my most sincere THANK YOU . You have made my day and then some.

Good health and happiness to you : Keith

 

[seinen]

Keith,

You're very welcome. I don't know a whole lot about S & W firearms, but I can usually assist with Japanese translations, military history, etc. Happy to help anytime.

If you do decide to get a factory letter for your No. 2, please do post the findings here. I have a couple of Japanese-marked No. 2 revolvers and they were shipped directly from S&W to Japanese firms or foreign companies acting as agents for the Japanese.

C/

 

[mnrivrat]

I do plan on getting the letter. I am short a printer at this time but maybe can find someone to print out the form and a photo. My youngest can do so but is in the process of moving at this time so it will be a week or two.

I will be sure to post it.
Thanks Again

Keith

 

[mnrivrat]

I finally got things put together and today mailed my history request on this Japanese marked Old Army . Now just the wait and I will have about all I can dig up on the gun. I wish I could find out more of its history when it comes to who brought it back. So far I have not had much luck on that . Going to try another approach, but not holding my breath. I will post again when I get the letter from the History Foundation. Thanks again to all who have helped.

 

[AJ]

Please keep us posted.

 

[shouldazagged]

Thank you for posing this intriguing mystery. And thanks to seinen for the translation.

I really look forward to learning what the letter reveals.

 

[mmaher94087]

A good reference for Japanese marked antique guns is a soft back booklet: "The Japanese Chose Smith & Wesson". Allan, Goddard, et.al. have done a wonderful job of presenting many Japanese markings found on Smith & Wesson Revolvers. Chip Goddard is 'seinen'. I'm sorry if I blew your cover Chip but I think you deserve credit. Thank you.

 

[mnrivrat]

And once gain thank you to Chip also. I have bought the book .
My final effort to receive information from the person I bought the gun from came up with a Zero. I had offered him financial compensation for anything I could use. His reply was that he purchased the gun from an elderly person at a gun show. All information regarding its origins as a bring back item taken from a Japanese soldier at Okinawa was he said "verbal".

Since it was antique and was a cash transaction, he did not take the sellers information. An ignorant choice on his part in my opinion, but now information lost from history and remains only as a undocumented story. Not sure how long the S&W History letter will take, but will certainly share its information when it arrives.


Keith

 

[seinen]

A good reference for Japanese marked antique guns is a soft back booklet: "The Japanese Chose Smith & Wesson". Allan, Goddard, et.al. have done a wonderful job of presenting many Japanese markings found on Smith & Wesson Revolvers. Chip Goddard is 'seinen'. I'm sorry if I blew your cover Chip but I think you deserve credit. Thank you.

Nah, no problem at all. Thanks also for the kudos. Just very happy to help anyway possible.

C/

 

[seinen]

And once gain thank you to Chip also. I have bought the book. My final effort to receive information from the person I bought the gun from came up with a Zero. I had offered him financial compensation for anything I could use. His reply was that he purchased the gun from an elderly person at a gun show. All information regarding its origins as a bring back item taken from a Japanese soldier at Okinawa was he said "verbal".

Keith

Keith,

You're very welcome. My last factory letter from Roy took almost eight months to arrive, but the wait was worth it. Looking forward to hearing the results when yours arrives.

C/

 

[seinen]

As a general rule, I don't frequent the S&W Antiques Forum all that often, since my collecting interests are very narrowly focused in the area of S&W arms. However, should anyone have weapons of interest with Japanese markings, I'd be more than happy to assist with translations. Just send me a PM through the forums system that you've posted a new thread and I'll take a look. Thanks!

C/

 

[mnrivrat]

I have received the History letter on this gun from Roy. I will try to get a photo of it up soon.

The letter indicates that my S&W #2 likely left the factory on September 7th, 1869 . It was part of a 150 unit shipment to C.W. May Company in Paris ,France and Marked for Japan.

I am pleased to have received the letter from Roy and it confirms the gun was destined for Japan which would verify my understanding of this interesting (for me at least) firearm. I am saddened by the fact I do not have verification of the return of this gun to the US. (just the story)

It would have been great to have at least the name of the GI who reportedly acquired it from a Japanese soldier during WWII . That could have closed the final chapter in the travels and history, and would have been the key to help verify the story.


Additional comments from any of you are welcomed, and since I am in a state of bad health I will likely be liquidating this firearm sometime soon. So any Idea regarding its value would also be appreciated. Not looking for top dollar, just a place to start or a very fair & reasonable estimate of value.

 

[mnrivrat]

My apology but I can not seem to get the letter photo to attach to a file here as of yet. I am working with my new camera now but am still trying to learn how to use it. It may not be attaching a correct JPG file name or something similar to that. If you want a photo please PM me with your e-mail address, and I will try to send a photo to you. I was able to take a picture and transfer it to my picture computer file. It just does not want to transfer to the forum for some yet unknown to me reason. Keith

 

[shouldazagged]

I don't think anyone has yet asked what the ornate stocks are made of. I don't recall ever seeing a coral-colored material used on any S&W handgun.

I'm also curious whether the decoration is carved or molded into the substance, whatever it is.

 

[mnrivrat]

"I don't think anyone has yet asked what the ornate stocks are made of. I don't recall ever seeing a coral-colored material used on any S&W handgun."


Thanks for your interest

I have been told that it was not unusual for the Japanese to do this type of carving and enameling.

The stocks are original wood and have the serial number of the gun stamped as was S&W's policy. They are carved into the corral pattern and then color enameled to give the appearance.

 

[EarlB]

Guess one should really be sure to follow all the areas of the S&W boards...never know what you will find. I saw this thread (very interesting revolver there mnrivrat)!...as I was going thru it I was about going to post up to get with the Banzai fellows for a translation but see Chip is a member here. Hello Chip! Been many a year since we conversed. I wish I still had my Japanese collection.

Earl Battey

 

[shouldazagged]

"I don't think anyone has yet asked what the ornate stocks are made of. I don't recall ever seeing a coral-colored material used on any S&W handgun."


Thanks for your interest

I have been told that it was not unusual for the Japanese to do this type of carving and enameling.

The stocks are original wood and have the serial number of the gun stamped as was S&W's policy. They are carved into the corral pattern and then color enameled to give the appearance.

Thanks, that's most interesting. The effect is striking.