wonchester
Member
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S&W 2" Victory Model
- Thread starter wonchester
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wonchester
Member
2" Victory Mdl.
I apologize that Photobucket will not allow third party posting. I was able to post pictures directly from my computer on The Colt Forum in their Lounge if you wish to view them.
I apologize that Photobucket will not allow third party posting. I was able to post pictures directly from my computer on The Colt Forum in their Lounge if you wish to view them.
DWalt
Member
First question as there are no pictures. Does it have the lug on the barrel ahead of the extractor rod?
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Can't see your photos here and can't even seen them on Photobucket itself. You might wish to consider a different photo hosting device in light of the recent problems that forum members have had with PB.
I'd like to see your revolver. If you can upload photos to the forum servers, they will appear in your posts as thumbnails, and then clicking on them will expand them to a larger size in a separate window.
In the interim, are you willing to share the serial number of your specimen?
EDITED TO ADD: Just saw your photos on the Colt Forum and have to say that I think that's the real deal. There are some threads about these two-inch Victory models on this forum. Use the search feature to turn them up. Your serial number is right in the wheelhouse for the first shipment of 300 units to Fort Mason CA in late 1942. Production volume for these is still not completely clear, but possibly fewer than a thousand were manufactured, of which I think no more than a few dozen are known. They are rarely seen. Most of them end up in collections from which they do not reappear until it is time to settle an estate. (OK, that last may be an exaggeration, but probably not by much.)
EDITED AGAIN TO ADD: I see pictures have appeared. Excellent!
I'd like to see your revolver. If you can upload photos to the forum servers, they will appear in your posts as thumbnails, and then clicking on them will expand them to a larger size in a separate window.
In the interim, are you willing to share the serial number of your specimen?
EDITED TO ADD: Just saw your photos on the Colt Forum and have to say that I think that's the real deal. There are some threads about these two-inch Victory models on this forum. Use the search feature to turn them up. Your serial number is right in the wheelhouse for the first shipment of 300 units to Fort Mason CA in late 1942. Production volume for these is still not completely clear, but possibly fewer than a thousand were manufactured, of which I think no more than a few dozen are known. They are rarely seen. Most of them end up in collections from which they do not reappear until it is time to settle an estate. (OK, that last may be an exaggeration, but probably not by much.)
EDITED AGAIN TO ADD: I see pictures have appeared. Excellent!
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OP
wonchester
Member
David, I could not find how to upload to the Forum Server. I will continue to see if I can.
SN is V 176834 on frame, barrel, cylinder and right grip reverse.
It does have lug on barrel. Appears to be one of 300 that shipped to Ft. Mason in 1942.
SN is V 176834 on frame, barrel, cylinder and right grip reverse.
It does have lug on barrel. Appears to be one of 300 that shipped to Ft. Mason in 1942.
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DWalt
Member
But does it have the barrel lug? That is very important in determining if you have a real Victory snubby or a sawed-off BSR. I do show one with a SN nearby which is real.
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kwill1911
Member
It is a correct Ft. Mason gun.
You can host the pictures of this forum and not have to use a third party service.
You can host the pictures of this forum and not have to use a third party service.
OP
wonchester
Member
Kevin, Thanks for the comment. I am not familiar with the process for posting on this forum without using an instrument like Photobucket.
I guess I will have to find the forum's tutorial and learn how to do that. It is certainly straight forward to do that on The Colt Forum.
I guess I will have to find the forum's tutorial and learn how to do that. It is certainly straight forward to do that on The Colt Forum.
DWalt
Member
It is the real deal. Unfortunately, the condition could be better, but in any condition it is a rare find. The nearby one on my list is V1763xx, also with the UNITED STATES PROPERTY stamping. They were shipped to Fort Mason (San Francisco) in 12/42.
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Boy, this is a quick moving thread with lots of replies in next to no time at all!
To post photos, hit "reply to thread" and then on the page that comes up look down below the composition box for the Manage Attachments link under "Attach Files." From here you can select image files on your own computer and create an upload list that will accompany your next post. I think you can do five at a time, but I haven't tried recently and don't recall the limitations.
kwill1911 is THE forum member to ask about these guns. Anything he says you can take to the bank.
To post photos, hit "reply to thread" and then on the page that comes up look down below the composition box for the Manage Attachments link under "Attach Files." From here you can select image files on your own computer and create an upload list that will accompany your next post. I think you can do five at a time, but I haven't tried recently and don't recall the limitations.
kwill1911 is THE forum member to ask about these guns. Anything he says you can take to the bank.
OP
wonchester
Member
David, I finally figured out how to attach desktop jpg.
I was in contact with Kevin before picking up the gun. I had a copy of his article on 2" S&W's as well as Charlie Pate's book which details this gun.
I was in contact with Kevin before picking up the gun. I had a copy of his article on 2" S&W's as well as Charlie Pate's book which details this gun.
Watchdog
Member
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This is strange.
I see the member's photographs just fine.
Here they are, if anyone's still having difficulties.
If I had that gun, the absolute last thing I'd be thinking about is "the condition could be better." Seriously.
I see the member's photographs just fine.
Here they are, if anyone's still having difficulties.
If I had that gun, the absolute last thing I'd be thinking about is "the condition could be better." Seriously.
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I agree completely!!!
OP
wonchester
Member
Watchdog, Thanks for posting the pictures so everyone can view the gun. Initially when I tried to post using Photobucket, they would not post. Finally, I was able to break the code on direct posting from jpg's on my desktop and I replaced the Photobucket messages and the thumbnail versions posted in the original posting.
The exchanges after the first post were mostly related to no photos being viewable initially.
The exchanges after the first post were mostly related to no photos being viewable initially.
OP
wonchester
Member
Regarding the comment about "the condition could be better", that is what I told the person in the gun shop when I first saw the gun. He laughed and said, "How many of these have you ever seen?"
Answer: Now the number is One, that I recall.
I've never paid that much attention to the Victory Model - but that 2"er really caught my attention. Congrats and thanks for posting!
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Kevin may know the details, but during the period when the long UNITED STATES PROPERTY version was used on the top strap, the inspector's initials were on the butt, not the top. Why there aren't any on the butt, and no P proof either, would interest me, too. Usually, having only the flaming bomb was the practice only for DSC/USMC guns.
I am going to enter an area which is considered poor taste by some , but I cannot resist - Would you be willing to give us a hint regarding the $$$ involved in the transaction?
Whatever that figure is , you sure did come across a rare opportunity. In a gun shop no less!
Whatever that figure is , you sure did come across a rare opportunity. In a gun shop no less!
I think the real question is not how much wonchester paid for his, but how much any one of the rest of us would have to pay in order to pick one up from an informed seller. I don't mind reporting that five years ago, when I still had some disposable cash, I paid well over $5K for V629214, a late DSC specimen in nice shape that was shipped in April 1945. There is a thread in the archives, but thanks to the database managers at Photobucket there are no longer any photos to back up the words.
I think I recall seeing one offered for a five digit price about three years ago, but that may have been a Model 56. My memory is about as depleted as my collectibles account. My guess is that the next two inch Victory to come to market in a national auction will sell between $4000 and $8000 depending on the usual variables.
I think I recall seeing one offered for a five digit price about three years ago, but that may have been a Model 56. My memory is about as depleted as my collectibles account. My guess is that the next two inch Victory to come to market in a national auction will sell between $4000 and $8000 depending on the usual variables.
There are others that were shipped throughout WW2. I owned V668550, shipped Dec 29,1944, to Chicago Union Station. I don't have any pictures of it now. I sold it almost 15 years ago. It is a 2" Victory.
Regards, Mike Priwer
Regards, Mike Priwer
OP
wonchester
Member
I got a good deal on the gun from a gun store that sells based on their cost.
I will say that I am intrigued by the 1942 shipment of 300 of these guns to Ft. Mason. I suspect they were not meant for use by Ft. Mason personnel. According to written history, Ft. Mason was a major west coast port of embarkation for troops and supplies to Asia. I suspect these 300 2" barreled Victory Models went to some fighting force(s) in Asia or in the Pacific. The fact that very few have ever surfaced here in the US might mean they did not simply go to GI's.
I will say that I am intrigued by the 1942 shipment of 300 of these guns to Ft. Mason. I suspect they were not meant for use by Ft. Mason personnel. According to written history, Ft. Mason was a major west coast port of embarkation for troops and supplies to Asia. I suspect these 300 2" barreled Victory Models went to some fighting force(s) in Asia or in the Pacific. The fact that very few have ever surfaced here in the US might mean they did not simply go to GI's.
DWalt
Member
I tend to doubt they went to Asia or the Pacific with troops, but at this late date it's unlikely anyone knows their purpose for sure. More likely they were used for base security or possibly arming some intelligence, CID, or logistics unit, etc. possibly based at Ft. Mason. The U. S. Army as a service arm used very few Victories of any barrel length, certainly not for arming combat troops, and the great majority of .38 Specials used by the U. S. Military went to the U. S. Navy.
robbt
Member
what is a Ft. Mason gun ??
Pisgah
Member
I have no clue what the value of that gun would be, but being such a rare bird I'd bet it wouldn't be, "Cheep, cheep!", in spite of the less-than-mint condition!
DWalt
Member
Has there been a recent comparable sale on GunBroker or one of the large gun auction houses?
My guess would be in the low to mid 4-figures for that one. In top condition, maybe double.
My guess would be in the low to mid 4-figures for that one. In top condition, maybe double.
OP
wonchester
Member
My thought is if these 300 guns were used for such purposes as guards in the San Francisco area (maybe some at Ft. Mason), many would have shown up in the US after the war. They have not.
One scenario might be that with the American fliers leaving the Flying Tigers and rejoining the Army Air Corp, these 300 guns could have been sent to Chiang Kai-shek for use by the remnants of his flight crews.
Of course, nearly all of the 300 guns could have been lost when a transport ship was sunk in the Pacific.
At this point, there seems to be no information as to what happened to these 300 guns.
Edit note: These 300 guns were shipped in October of 1942.
One scenario might be that with the American fliers leaving the Flying Tigers and rejoining the Army Air Corp, these 300 guns could have been sent to Chiang Kai-shek for use by the remnants of his flight crews.
Of course, nearly all of the 300 guns could have been lost when a transport ship was sunk in the Pacific.
At this point, there seems to be no information as to what happened to these 300 guns.
Edit note: These 300 guns were shipped in October of 1942.
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Texas Star
US Veteran
We know the FBI got some snub Victory Models, and I think CID got most of the others.
Much later on, snub .38's were issued to some helicopter pilots, some being Model 12 Airweights.
But I've never seen a photo of a snub S&W .38 in military use, outside of those in missile silos. Have seen a couple of pics of CID and CIC agents with Colt snubs.
I know we had both Chief Specials and Colt snubs for AP investigators at Lowry AFB in Denver in the mid-1960's. And fellow AP's who had been stationed at Fairchild AFB, WA said they had M-56's, which they disliked because they were harder to shoot well than four-inch guns.
We know the Navy bought some Chief Specials, but no idea who got them. They had lanyard rings on the butts, so maybe aircrews? Apart from US marked on the backstrap and the ring, they were normal blued guns.
SAC Elite Guard had nickeled guns with imitation stag grips, and I think some may have been snubs. Others had four-inch barrels. Has anyone here seen a SAC nickel snub? Was it a re-worked Victory Model?
Has anyone seen photos of any S&W snub in military service? Details?
Much later on, snub .38's were issued to some helicopter pilots, some being Model 12 Airweights.
But I've never seen a photo of a snub S&W .38 in military use, outside of those in missile silos. Have seen a couple of pics of CID and CIC agents with Colt snubs.
I know we had both Chief Specials and Colt snubs for AP investigators at Lowry AFB in Denver in the mid-1960's. And fellow AP's who had been stationed at Fairchild AFB, WA said they had M-56's, which they disliked because they were harder to shoot well than four-inch guns.
We know the Navy bought some Chief Specials, but no idea who got them. They had lanyard rings on the butts, so maybe aircrews? Apart from US marked on the backstrap and the ring, they were normal blued guns.
SAC Elite Guard had nickeled guns with imitation stag grips, and I think some may have been snubs. Others had four-inch barrels. Has anyone here seen a SAC nickel snub? Was it a re-worked Victory Model?
Has anyone seen photos of any S&W snub in military service? Details?
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DWalt
Member
a small number of V-snubbies were sold through DSC to police, but those did not have topstrap stampings. And I believe the majority of those were sold late in the war.
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