S&W 25-2 .45ACP With Documented Factory Extra .45 Colt Cylinder Value?

[M1Lover]

Years ago I bought this pristine 1980 Smith & Wesson 25-2, Model of 1955, 6", pinned barrel, target trigger, hammer, and sights, in the original wooden presentation case, from the original owner. He had bought the revolver in .45 ACP but shortly after he bought it, shipped it back to S&W to have a .45 Colt cylinder fitted. I have every letter both ways to document this. I don't think he ever shot .45 Colt in it. When I bought it the .45 ACP cylinder was in it. Presentation case is in good condition, the plastic insert doesn't have any blue fuzzy flock on it, but the tool compartment door does. Its still shedding. All tools, bore brush and swab, 5 different pieces of S&W literature that came with it. The revolver is in 99% condition as are the stocks. The OP cut a square in the plastic case insert for the spare cylinder to sit in, but didn't do a very good job of it. Only possibility now is to clean up the hole.
I'm considering a sale because it just sits in my safe. I've never fired it and I've got other handgun interests. I've never seen another .45 N frame with a factory documented spare cylinder. The cylinder cost him $75 installed in 1981. Trying to establish market value on this fine revolver. Thanks in advance for your opinion. H

 

[bamabiker]

Wow, very nice. Value? I don't know. That's not one you see every day.

 

[Derosa]

Value, sir? Priceless.

 

[M1Lover]

Value, sir? Priceless.

That's kinda what I thought. I found another case for it and though I kept the original and all the paraphernalia, I store it like this:

 

[bamabiker]

We have a member (jcelect) that can make that original box insert like new.

 

[Art Doc]

I'm not sure how they did this. The Colt cylinder is much longer than the ACP cylinder. The 25-2 has a rather long portion of the barrel protruding into the cylinder window due to the short cylinder. A regular length 45 Colt cylinder wouldn't fit given the long barrel intrusion.

Maybe the Colt cylinder can be shortened enough to fit but is still long enough to contain the 45 Colt cartridge? I'm curious as to just how this auxiliary cylinder was made up.

 

[tennexplorer]

They used a cylinder from the 125th Anniversary Commemoratives. Those cylinders were the shorter length. The bad news is they tend to have large throats.

 

[BUFF]

The M-25-3 125th Commemorative, in .45 Colt, used a cylinder short enough to be fit into a M-25-2 .45 ACP, and S&W had a number of extras left over from the 25-3. Until this stock of cylinders ran out, they would fit them to customers' 25-2's. This is what the o.p. has. I don't know how many S&W sold and fit to guns.

The shorter cylinder is long enough to chamber and fire most factory .45 Colt ammunition, such as the traditional 250-255 grain conical bullet ammo from R-P and W-W, as well as the 225 gr. W-W Silvertip and Federal's SWC-HP, which were pretty well all of the factory offerings at the time the 25-3 was made. About the only time this cylinder is too short is for some cast SWC handloads, such as Lyman's 454424 or heavier bullets, or some semi-custom loads using heavier-than-traditional bullets.

Fitting re-chambered cylinders that were originally .38 Special or.357 Mag was the most common way of having a .45 Colt S&W before the25-3, 25-5 and subsequent guns were made. I have had a few of these made up, myself. One is a Bowen conversion of a .38-44, and another was a dual cylinder 25-2 done by Andy Cannon back in the early 1980's.

I would guess the value of the o.p's gun would be the value of a nice M-25-2 plus the cost of having an extra cylinder fit, I am think an extra $200--$300.

 

[TDC]

M1Lover,

If your gun has all factory documentation and you wish to sell it I may be interested. Let me know....

tennexplorer and BUFF

Please pardon the hijack but I've just gotta ask.... I have several 25-3 125th Commemoratives, one of which is a shooter. Would it be as simple as it sounds to fit a 25-2 cylinder to one of these guns?

It obviously could utilize both half-moon clips and Auto Rim ammo. I cast my own bullets and hand-load so throats and OAL have been of little concern. If it would be a reasonably inexpensive modification I'm doing it!

 

[BUFF]

"I have several 25-3 125th Commemoratives, one of which is a shooter. Would it be as simple as it sounds to fit a 25-2 cylinder to one of these guns?"

I'm not a gunsmith, but I got the idea, over the years, that fitting an extra cylinder to a d.a. revolver is more complex than it looks. Might drop in, but might (probably) won't. Cannon cut down a longer 25-5 cylinder to fit my M-25-2, making the cylinder fit the existing other parts. Fitting a new ratchet to the original hand, for example, and cutting the face of the longer cylinder for a correct barrel/cylinder gap..

 

[Muley Gil]

TDC,

Another problem is that the M25-2 has a different, longer cylinder frame lug due to the headspace for .45 ACP in moon clips and .45Auto Rim. You have to be careful that when ejecting empties with the -2 cylinder you don't let the shorter cylinder batter itself on the -3 frame lug.

 

[BUFF]

"Another problem is that the M25-2 has a different, longer cylinder frame lug due to the headspace for .45 ACP in moon clips and .45Auto Rim. You have to be careful that when ejecting empties with the -2 cylinder you don't let the shorter cylinder batter itself on the -3 frame lug."

This can be avoided by cutting a recess or step around the rear edge of the .45 Colt cylinder, length-wise equal to the difference of the gap needed between the rear of the cylinders for both calibers (about 0.040"-0.045"), deep enough to clear the frame's lug.

If you have the 1981 GUN DIGEST, the cover photos and the article inside written by C. E. Harris, illustrates this recess. The article is about adding a .45 Colt cylinder to S&W's 1917; same as doing so for the M-25-2/1955 Target or other N frame .45 ACP revolver.

 

[steelslaver]

The OPs must have had the frame lug changed as no relief on the cylinder. Plus the short 25-3 cylinder. Nice set up. I would say its worth a minimum of $300 extra with a factory job. The correct factory cylinder would be hard to find and expensive. You could have a 357 cylinder reamed and fitted, but it would probably cost more than a nice 25-3 cylinder.

I have done it both ways. I preferred carefully filing the fame lug back .030. The little extra movement in the cylinder extracting and closing up never caused me a problem. Then I said the heck with changing cylinders and made up 45 colt cylinders and cut them to accept 45 acps in moon clips. I am a lost cause, LOL, I have collected up the parts to make a dedicated 45acp gun and a 45 colt gun. Do, I need 6 S&W 45 guns? No, but I want them. LOL. My 38s, 357s and 44s just set there begging to be shot.

 

[M1Lover]

TONS of good information, Gents. All the documentation I have for the addition of the .45 Colt cylinder to this 25-2 is dated 1981. As I've said, the mod cost the owner $75 which included the cylinder. Thanks to all for the replies.

 

[BlackAgnes]

Here's a version which I believe is almost certainly a Factory job, using a leftover Model 25-3 cylinder, although Roy says sets like this won't letter as such.

Note the perfect cutout in the liner for the spare cylinder.

Another S&W mystery!

 

[bananaman]

Beautiful!!! I don't know what could be more likeable than that! Bob

 

[serger]

What is the nominal length of a 25-2 and 25-3 cylinder? I've got a 45 colt cylinder that's 1.572" and think that it's a 25-3. As a reference, my 25-7 is 1.672" and my 25-13 is 1.672".

 

[steelslaver]

That should be about right. I just measured a 45 colt cylinder I had in a 25-2 at 1.573 and a 25-2 45 acp cylinder cylinder measured .030 shorter (1.543) than a 25-3 colt because the rear of it needs to accommodate the moon clips.

 

[Muley Gil]

"Another problem is that the M25-2 has a different, longer cylinder frame lug due to the headspace for .45 ACP in moon clips and .45Auto Rim. You have to be careful that when ejecting empties with the -2 cylinder you don't let the shorter cylinder batter itself on the -3 frame lug."

This can be avoided by cutting a recess or step around the rear edge of the .45 Colt cylinder, length-wise equal to the difference of the gap needed between the rear of the cylinders for both calibers (about 0.040"-0.045"), deep enough to clear the frame's lug.

If you have the 1981 GUN DIGEST, the cover photos and the article inside written by C. E. Harris, illustrates this recess. The article is about adding a .45 Colt cylinder to S&W's 1917; same as doing so for the M-25-2/1955 Target or other N frame .45 ACP revolver.

I read that article 35 years ago. Poster TDC wants to start with a M25-3, which is a .45 Colt, and add a .45 ACP cylinder. The -3 frame lug is shorter than the one found on a -2.