S&W 3913 or Sig 239???

[digiroc]

... S&W is just as great in themselves as Glock.

Glock created the lowest common denominator in semi-auto pistols. Cheap plastic has won the day.

Being just as "great" as a Glock is quite a downgrade from the excellent S&W's of days gone by.

digiroc

 

[fordson]

I just picked up a used Sig P239 in 40S&W with two mags for under $400. Great piece. Bought an extra mag, SRT Kit (installed it myself - lots of fun) higher rear sight to low POA and have ordered a 357 Sig barrel. It shoots everything I feed it - reloads and factory. POI is POA. This gun has become my EDC. With practice the controls become second nature; it's not an issue. I put more $$ into it then you might want too, but it is a great carry piece - reliable, comfortable and accurate. I go to the range weekly and it comes with me regardless of what else I may shoot; it's just that much fun. You can see that I like it. I don't think you could go wrong with one.

 

[sodacan]

Except for the early models 52 and 41, I have never even a big fan of S&W semi-auto pistols. I am a fan of Sigs, however, and once owned a P239 in 9mm. Contrary to most owners of the model, I thought it was just an OK pistol, for a number of reasons. I bought a used West German made P6 about a year ago. It was a German police turn-in, and was in amazing condition. It is a little larger and heavier than the 239, but it was better built and fit my hand better. Off went the 239. I paid $400 for the P6 and have never looked back.

 

[Amp]

One other thing, if the 3913 has night sights they may need to be replaced about now. I am updating my own.

 

[Arik]

Glock created the lowest common denominator in semi-auto pistols. Cheap plastic has won the day.

Being just as "great" as a Glock is quite a downgrade from the excellent S&W's of days gone by.

digiroc

Glock didn't create it although they did popularize it. HK was making "plastic" guns in the 70s. They were just too expensive for the avg person and no police department was going to spend that money either. Striker Guns have been around since the 20s, also German made.

I guess it comes down to why you have a gun. You're saying "lowest common denominator" simply by material used without taking into regard that they work. Which is what they were designed to do. If I have a 5906, which I had several of, that holds 16 rounds and weighs 40oz and a G19 which holds 16 rounds and weighs half that. Why would i add more weight without any advantage? Both work, both hold and shoot the same ammo. And Glock has definitely proven combat effective. Which is to say they don't fall apart in harsh conditions just because the frame isn't metal.

It doesn't have to be Glock, they are just synonymous with polymer frame handguns. I like HK just as much, Walther, Sig....etc..

I don't consider them downgrade as long as they do what they were designed to do. Which is why I'm buying them.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[firescout]

The 239 slide release seems to be in an impractical place to me by what I am seeing. Anybody have experience with the 239 controls?

Are you mistaking the takedown lever for the slide release? The 239 slide release is the 'pad' closest to the hammer. The decocking lever is forward of that.

 

[Arik]

Except for the early models 52 and 41, I have never even a big fan of S&W semi-auto pistols. I am a fan of Sigs, however, and once owned a P239 in 9mm. Contrary to most owners of the model, I thought it was just an OK pistol, for a number of reasons. I bought a used West German made P6 about a year ago. It was a German police turn-in, and was in amazing condition. It is a little larger and heavier than the 239, but it was better built and fit my hand better. Off went the 239. I paid $400 for the P6 and have never looked back.

They seem to mainly come in 40. Finding a 9 is extremely difficult for some reason. Guess they made more 40

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[loeman]

The 239 slide release seems to be in an impractical place to me by what I am seeing. Anybody have experience with the 239 controls?

Interesting and good question. I've had my P239 for eighteen years and never gave a thought about the placement of the slide release. So I guess I have to say that it works well for me. I think the reason I like it is that I always use the "slingshot" procedure to chamber the first round thus eliminating the need to press the slide release. So essentially I only use the slide release for unloaded handling/cleaning or for putting the slide forward for storage. And since I have medium size hands it seems to be in a good place. I'm not complaining but the slide release on my 3rd Gens is a pretty long reach.

There is one thing that I favor about the P239 over my 3rd Gens and that is the frame mounted decocker. I like the position and the "controllable" feel that it gives unlike the fast, loud snap of my 3rd Gens. But as I said above, I'm not complaining they are just different and I like both platforms.

 

[Arik]

The 239 slide release....like all SIGs...is placed so you can use your thumb instead of trigger finger

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[GaryS]

I don't own a 239, but every few months I wonder why I don't own a 239. Then, another 3rd Gen comes along and there goes the money.

Seriously though, I'm told that the 239 is more or less what a current production 3913 would look like if there were such a thing as a current production 3913.

The weak spot in the 3rd Gens it the Delrin grips. My work around for that currently is a Hogue Handall grip sleeve. The gun just fits my hand so much better with them on. My 6906 has the Hogue grip, which is much better than the one for the 3913.

The other issue with the 239 is the cost compared to a 3913. I guess that's just a reflection of current production with out of production guns.

 

[Blackshirt]

If you are right-handed, the Sig is a better pistol. The decocker is in a very ergonomic position (for righties), the takedown lever makes field stripping a snap, and the accuracy is surprising in a smallish pistol. In addition, the .40 S&W and .357 Sig barrels interchange to give you two guns in one...no magazine or extractor mods are necessary.

As far as the .357 Sig cartridge goes, it's what I refer to as a demi-magnum. Common loadings from Speer and Federal send a 125 grain bullet out the muzzle at 1350fps...go with Buffalo Bore or Underwood and the speed goes up to 1425 or 1450! That yields kinetic energy that ranges from 500-600 ft lbs....close to 357 Magnum performance. All in a package that is sized like a 9mm. I consider this to be the best self-defense cartridge commonly available for autopistols.

Also...both of the pistols you asked about are all metal and I understand the appeal. However, polymer pistols are far lighter and affordable. My Blue Label Glock 33 w/night sights in .357 only cost me $495 (including sales tax), it weighs 22 ounces, and it has 9+1 capacity. It is accurate and enjoys a huge aftermarket, too. My Glock 32 is the same size as a Glock 19, has a 13+1 capacity, weighs 24 ounces, is more accurate than the 33, yet the cost is the same. If performance is your most important parameter, polymer pistols compare very favorably...

 

[GeoJelly]

I have a 3913 and a P239 in 9mm. I think the P239 has one advantage over the S&W if you were planning on putting a lot of rounds through it: The 3913 has barrel to aluminum frame interaction that beats up the frame over time if you fire it a lot. The P239 is steel to steel as far as barrel interface with the frame. That said, the 3913 is the more svelte of the two given the blocky/chunky slide on the P239.

 

[Big Cholla]

GeoJelly: I have a friend that competed with his S&W 3913 in 3 Gun matches and IDPA. He put a recorded 40,000 + rounds thru that pistol with minor maintenance. The frame finally developed a crack thru the bridge over the slide stop lever hole. He sent it to S&W and they sent him back a new M 3913 with the original serial number. I think that is a pretty fair record for any handgun let alone an aluminum framed one. .....

 

[.455Eley]

I'm really liking the 3953 I picked up recently. I'm not a big fan of da/sa or .40 but have been getting on pretty well with the dao on the 53. If you're set on a .40, I've noticed several 4013s on the auction site right now. I'm almost tempted to get one.

 

[GaryS]

Sadly, S&W doesn't have any more 3913 frames, so if someone sends one in for a cracked frame, they'll get an offer to buy a M&P9 at a reduced price. Personally, if that happened to me, I'd take the M&P, sell it, and then go looking for another 3913.

OTOH, lubrication, cleaning, and replacing the recoil spring every 5K rounds seems to be the formula for keeping an alloy frame 3rd Gen healthy for years on end.

GeoJelly: I have a friend that competed with his S&W 3913 in 3 Gun matches and IDPA. He put a recorded 40,000 + rounds thru that pistol with minor maintenance. The frame finally developed a crack thru the bridge over the slide stop lever hole. He sent it to S&W and they sent him back a new M 3913 with the original serial number. I think that is a pretty fair record for any handgun let alone an aluminum framed one. .....

 

[GaryS]

I'm not fan of .40, but those 4013 and 4013TSW guns that show up fairly often are very, very, tempting. I just don't want to have to start supporting yet another handgun caliber. .380, .38spcl, 9mm, and .45 ACP are plenty as is.

I know that .380 wasn't considered a police caliber, but I have to wonder what a .380 3rd Gen would have been like?

I'm really liking the 3953 I picked up recently. I'm not a big fan of da/sa or .40 but have been getting on pretty well with the dao on the 53. If you're set on a .40, I've noticed several 4013s on the auction site right now. I'm almost tempted to get one.

 

[Fastbolt]

The 239 slide release seems to be in an impractical place to me by what I am seeing. Anybody have experience with the 239 controls?

Interesting question to which I'll pop in for a second.

When it comes to the little SIG compact, I've found that some shooters who favor high/neutral thumb holds can sometimes unintentionally either engage the slide stop lever prematurely (locking the gun open with ammo remaining in the mag), or else they "ride" in inward/downward, and that pressure prevents the slide stop lever from locking back on an empty mag.

Neither of these occurrences are exactly convenient, but it's one thing to run dry and have to reload, and it's another thing to still have ammo that can be fired, but the gun can't fire without you having to address some totally preventable shooter-induced problem.

The second of these shooter-induced problems is annoying, meaning many folks think that have to do a tap-rack-assess, only to discover they really only have an empty mag. That takes time and can be distracting (probably not something for which they "train", or practice).

The first problem may be worse, because now you're no longer able to shoot, but you have ammo in the mag that you could be shooting, if not for a thumb problem.

I had an instructor bring me a P239 .40 that he said belonged to another cop, and that the gun needed to be fixed because it was frequently locking open with ammo still in the mag. Might be a weakened or damaged mag spring, right? Unless ...

When I asked about the gun's owner, I was told he was familiar with SIG's, having carried an issued full-size SIG .357 at another agency, but he carried the compact P239 .40 off-duty at present. When I asked, I was told he was also right-handed.

The instructor who brought me the gun was familiar with SIG's, but didn't carry one, and was also right-handed.

We went downrange and I couldn't get the gun (shooting right-handed) to exhibit the "problem", but the other instructor managed to replicate it a couple times (shooting right-handed). I asked him to shoot it left-handed, and he couldn't get the "problem" to reoccur. (No slide stop lever on the other side, so that's a hint, right? )

Now, the larger double stack SIG the P239 owner had carried and used for a long time usually sits in the hand a little differently, meaning it's easily possible for the smaller 239 to fit in his hand differently and position his thumb just at the wrong spot to bump the slide stop lever upward during the little .40's recoil.

The solution? Move the thumb, of course. The gun was working normally, as designed, but it seemed the shooter probably required a little "adjustment" in order for the gun to run normally.

I just relate this to illustrate how some folks might have a grip (and thumb position) that's fine with some pistols, but which might sometimes contribute to the potential for causing an issue with another pistol.

The 3913 has a forward slide stop lever. It's a reach for some folks who use the slide stop lever to release the slide.

The 239 has the slide stop lever far back at the rear, right under the ball of the thumb for many shooters, the grip is a little wide (changing thumb position for some folks). Just make sure an errant thumb position and thumb movement under recoil doesn't interfere with the proper function of the control levers at an inopportune moment.

Now, if you're left-handed, and the gun you're using doesn't have an ambi/right-side slide stop lever, it's one of those little blessings.

 

[GaryS]

I've always been under the impression that the slide stop lever was a slide STOP lever, not a slide RELEASE lever.

That being the case, it would seem that having it forward on the frame, away from errant digits would be an advantage.

 

[Guevera]

For me, the single vs. double stack comparison makes it apples and oranges. Being flat is one of my major criteria, and that's why I'll stick with my 3953, the DAO version of the 3913. I'm not in the grip of nostalgia - this is just what works the best for me.

 

[Arik]

I've always been under the impression that the slide stop lever was a slide STOP lever, not a slide RELEASE lever.

That being the case, it would seem that having it forward on the frame, away from errant digits would be an advantage.

That's how I thought except that I always thought guns like S&W 3rd gens, 1911s, HK USP, Sig were slide releases. And guns like Glocks, M&P were slide stops. In fact Glock actually states that it's slide stop

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk