ab4ka
Member
I've never owned Sig, and I'd like to, but for the cost of the Sig I'd buy the S&W and a pile of ammo.
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S&W 3913 or Sig 239???
- Thread starter dandyrandy
- Start date
Arik
Member
scooter123
Member
I have two 40 caliber P239 pistols, so you know how I would vote.
However I also have to point out the easy to field stripping and re-assembly for the Sig Sauer. If the 3913 follows the same protocol as the older model 59 it won't be nearly as easy to field strip or put back together.
Then there is the matter of spare parts, the P239 is still in production and almost any part needed for regular maintenance is a simple matter of placing an order with Top Gun Supply. If you need a small part or spring for a 3913 you'll have to cross your fingers it will be in stock at Numrich's or wait until one becomes available.
However I also have to point out the easy to field stripping and re-assembly for the Sig Sauer. If the 3913 follows the same protocol as the older model 59 it won't be nearly as easy to field strip or put back together.
Then there is the matter of spare parts, the P239 is still in production and almost any part needed for regular maintenance is a simple matter of placing an order with Top Gun Supply. If you need a small part or spring for a 3913 you'll have to cross your fingers it will be in stock at Numrich's or wait until one becomes available.
digiroc
Member
I have a 5906 with a short slide from a 3914 and CT laser grips. I've got a few factory 15 round magazines for it and recently bought 4 Mecgar 17 rounders for it.
I recently (yesterday) bought a former NYPD 3914DAO that has second strike capability and a CT laser grip modified to fit by a member here:
You can check it out in "Guns for Sale" on this forum.
digiroc
I recently (yesterday) bought a former NYPD 3914DAO that has second strike capability and a CT laser grip modified to fit by a member here:
You can check it out in "Guns for Sale" on this forum.
digiroc
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Mainsail
Member
Sig P239 all the way.
It's always frustrating to buy a great gun, and both are, and then find out that holsters, mags, etc. are difficult to find. Support from the manufacturer is important too, and Sig will still service your pistol.
It's always frustrating to buy a great gun, and both are, and then find out that holsters, mags, etc. are difficult to find. Support from the manufacturer is important too, and Sig will still service your pistol.
I'm packing for a holiday trip to Texas. I was going to bring along my 3913, but decided at the last minute that my 3914NL hasn't made a trip in a while. So, I'll have that and a Bersa for times when I need a pocket pistol.
With four different 391x guns and a 3953, sometimes it's hard to choose.
With four different 391x guns and a 3953, sometimes it's hard to choose.
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Fastbolt
Member
For whoever the "average" (industry rated) owner might be, either the M3913 (and variants) or the P239 would probably be a fine choice, and probably a "lifetime" pistol.
As someone who has been through the S&W 3rd gen pistol armorer class a few times, and who has helped support upwards of over a thousand early 3rd gen and later production TSW's (combined), I've not had to do what I'd consider to be a lot of repairs on the guns.
I recently had to replace an extractor on a mid-2000's production 3913TSW which had some chipping on the hook's edge, but that was only because I saw it during an inspection. The owner said the gun was running and functioning just fine (and it was dirty, of course), and he'd not noticed the chipping. Probably wasn't wearing his reading glasses when cleaning the extractor, I'd guess. He's not been keeping a running tally of his rounds fired, but said he shoots the gun almost everyday on his own rural property "range". He's a retired LE firearms instructor himself, and estimates he's probably fired somewhere around 15-20K rounds through that just that gun (he owns and shoots a lot of them).
That's not unusual for 3rd gens, though, meaning to feed/extract/eject normally when extractor chipping may start to occur. I was once told by an armorer instructor (who was also a retired cop, firearms instructor and gunsmith in his former life) that a rough thumbnail estimate for the service life of a 3rd gen extractor might be at least 10K rounds, although he had some competition guns that had run twice that long without repair (both 4003TSW's, if I remember right).
I've had to replace a chipped extractor at just about 12K rounds fired in one of my issued early production 6906's (fired by me, but it had been previously issued before I got it), but that gun had the older style extractor in it.
I've had to replace fewer broken ejectors, but I started the practice of replacing older ejectors (short-tipped, with the sharp angled corners on the bottom) with the newer revised ones when I did have to replace a chipped extractor in an early 3rd gen gun, as the ejectors are one half of the "pair" of hard-working ejector/extractor partnership, especially in older, well-worn guns. Also, the revised ejectors have longer tips, which helps with faster ejection (especially when hotter loads are being used), and the change of a sharp angled corner to a curved corner (bottom of ejector tip, where it merges with the body) was done to help prevent a possible stress riser.
I've can guesstimate that over the years I've probably had to replace maybe a dozen chipped extractors in older 3rd gen's, and that's out of close to 500 older models that saw upwards of 15-20 years of service, and the TSW's that replaced them for several years before we went plastic.
Another guy used his early production 3913 for a lot of weekend competitions over what he said was more than a 10 year period (if I remember right, as that was a long time ago), and it needed a new extractor, drawbar and hammer. He'd chipped the extractor and worn down the notches on his hammer & drawbar (skips-DA issue was occurring due to the hammer/drawbar tolerances, which is why he brought it to me).
I've done a fair amount of shooting with my own 3rd gen 9's, .40's and .45's, and they've withstood years of frequent usage as training, off-duty and now retirement guns (and have still seen training/practice/qual use even in my retirement).
When I first became a 3rd gen armorer we had a very modest number of repair parts (I'd call it stingy). As it was repeatedly pointed out to me by the then-head armorer, though, that was because we didn't need many of them. It wasn't unless someone did something dumb with their gun, like not loading the chamber from a magazine, but dropping a round directly into the chamber and letting the extractor slam forward out and around the case rim, which could eventually damaged the extractor's hook. Or, trying to detail disassemble their issued gun (without approval, of course), and losing some parts.
It wasn't until some of the guns started edging upward to the 15-20 years in-service (and subject to the abuse of some cops
) that we started to see some worn out or damaged (by use) parts that require replacement.
I've stopped worrying about wearing mine out.
I've probably seen as many damaged, broken, defective or simply worn out parts on Glocks. Extractors, RSA's, some plastic parts, tweaked LB pins, worn out springs, etc. My own G27 had the FP and trigger bar engagement wear itself out-of-spec (meaning dropping below 2/3's engagement) at close to 14K rounds fired, while my older G26, similar used and having seen as just much shooting (with a lot of +P & +P+), still has great engagement. (But .40's are harder on guns than 9's.)
Most people probably won't shoot their guns long and hard enough to wear them out. An occasional replacement of a recoil or mag spring and they'll probably be good to go.
Hell, I remember when a "torture" test of a K-frame or a Colt Commander was considered shooting 5K rounds through them.
As someone who has been through the S&W 3rd gen pistol armorer class a few times, and who has helped support upwards of over a thousand early 3rd gen and later production TSW's (combined), I've not had to do what I'd consider to be a lot of repairs on the guns.
I recently had to replace an extractor on a mid-2000's production 3913TSW which had some chipping on the hook's edge, but that was only because I saw it during an inspection. The owner said the gun was running and functioning just fine (and it was dirty, of course), and he'd not noticed the chipping. Probably wasn't wearing his reading glasses when cleaning the extractor, I'd guess. He's not been keeping a running tally of his rounds fired, but said he shoots the gun almost everyday on his own rural property "range". He's a retired LE firearms instructor himself, and estimates he's probably fired somewhere around 15-20K rounds through that just that gun (he owns and shoots a lot of them).
That's not unusual for 3rd gens, though, meaning to feed/extract/eject normally when extractor chipping may start to occur. I was once told by an armorer instructor (who was also a retired cop, firearms instructor and gunsmith in his former life) that a rough thumbnail estimate for the service life of a 3rd gen extractor might be at least 10K rounds, although he had some competition guns that had run twice that long without repair (both 4003TSW's, if I remember right).
I've had to replace a chipped extractor at just about 12K rounds fired in one of my issued early production 6906's (fired by me, but it had been previously issued before I got it), but that gun had the older style extractor in it.
I've had to replace fewer broken ejectors, but I started the practice of replacing older ejectors (short-tipped, with the sharp angled corners on the bottom) with the newer revised ones when I did have to replace a chipped extractor in an early 3rd gen gun, as the ejectors are one half of the "pair" of hard-working ejector/extractor partnership, especially in older, well-worn guns. Also, the revised ejectors have longer tips, which helps with faster ejection (especially when hotter loads are being used), and the change of a sharp angled corner to a curved corner (bottom of ejector tip, where it merges with the body) was done to help prevent a possible stress riser.
I've can guesstimate that over the years I've probably had to replace maybe a dozen chipped extractors in older 3rd gen's, and that's out of close to 500 older models that saw upwards of 15-20 years of service, and the TSW's that replaced them for several years before we went plastic.
Another guy used his early production 3913 for a lot of weekend competitions over what he said was more than a 10 year period (if I remember right, as that was a long time ago), and it needed a new extractor, drawbar and hammer. He'd chipped the extractor and worn down the notches on his hammer & drawbar (skips-DA issue was occurring due to the hammer/drawbar tolerances, which is why he brought it to me).
I've done a fair amount of shooting with my own 3rd gen 9's, .40's and .45's, and they've withstood years of frequent usage as training, off-duty and now retirement guns (and have still seen training/practice/qual use even in my retirement).
When I first became a 3rd gen armorer we had a very modest number of repair parts (I'd call it stingy). As it was repeatedly pointed out to me by the then-head armorer, though, that was because we didn't need many of them. It wasn't unless someone did something dumb with their gun, like not loading the chamber from a magazine, but dropping a round directly into the chamber and letting the extractor slam forward out and around the case rim, which could eventually damaged the extractor's hook. Or, trying to detail disassemble their issued gun (without approval, of course), and losing some parts.
It wasn't until some of the guns started edging upward to the 15-20 years in-service (and subject to the abuse of some cops
) that we started to see some worn out or damaged (by use) parts that require replacement.I've stopped worrying about wearing mine out.
I've probably seen as many damaged, broken, defective or simply worn out parts on Glocks. Extractors, RSA's, some plastic parts, tweaked LB pins, worn out springs, etc. My own G27 had the FP and trigger bar engagement wear itself out-of-spec (meaning dropping below 2/3's engagement) at close to 14K rounds fired, while my older G26, similar used and having seen as just much shooting (with a lot of +P & +P+), still has great engagement. (But .40's are harder on guns than 9's.)
Most people probably won't shoot their guns long and hard enough to wear them out. An occasional replacement of a recoil or mag spring and they'll probably be good to go.
Hell, I remember when a "torture" test of a K-frame or a Colt Commander was considered shooting 5K rounds through them.
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Brian in Oregon
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I don't own a P239, but the layout of the controls are the same on most of the metal frame DA/SA P-series. The controls are easy for me to use and are within easy reach. Where users have problems are with some replacement grips that are too thick in the slide release area.
.... I owned a Sig P239 .40 S&W and could not stand it, didn't like the caliber. I sold it and replaced it with a Sig P225, which I liked well enough to buy two more.
My biggest objection to the P239 is with the short height slide cocking serrations and apparently that's all that is offered now. Yours has full height. Is your slide the formed style or is it milled from a solid block?
I prefer the P225 as well. It's pretty much the same size as the P239, but is "blockier", while the P239 is more streamlined. Interestingly, SIG brought back the P225, as the P225A1, because many wanting a single stacker wanted a more traditional SIG look than the P239.
Supposedly SIG is going to offer the P225A1 at some point in 357 SIG and 40 S&W. When the 357 SIG version hits the market I'm planning on getting one.
The serrations on the P239 depend on the caliber. If it is 40/357 they are full height; 9mm is half height. All P239 (in fact all curent Sig) slides are milled from a solid block of stainless steel. Sig no longer produces slides that are folded and welded with a pinned in breech block. The last Sig pistol to have the folded slide was the P228.
Brian in Oregon
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Thanks, I wasn't aware of the caliber being the determining factor for the slide serrations.
I knew the current slides were milled from a solid block, but wondered if those were older guns. I'm not sure when the P239 first came out.
If SIG does not offer the P225A1 in 357 SIG, I might look at the P239, since the slide serrations were my big objection to it. We'll see what SIG has up their sleeve for 2017.
The P239 in 357 is an excellent shooter. I think it handles the recoil very well and shoots like a laser beam. I bought mine in 40 but once I put the 357 barrel in I never went back. The P239 came out in the late 90's I believe. It was one of the first Sig's "made" in the US (US slide with German frame and assembled in US). They have been milled from the beginning. I also own a P225 and a P225A1 and love them both. I actually prefer the P225A1 to both the P225 and P239, so yea, if they come out in 40/357 I will probably sell my P239 and pick up another P225A1.
ColbyBruce
Member
My other two Sig P225 pistols are DAO models, as is my P228.
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You might want to take a look at the CS9 (CS40, CS45). I carried one for many years as my B/U and off-duty gun as an LEO. I still have it. It's a great gun and will accept 8 round Model 39 mags spares.
Now that I'm long since retired, I carry a 9mm Shield with an Apex trigger kit and fiber optic sights.
The CS9 is even smaller than the Shield. My 68 year old eyes require "Bright Sites" that I couldn't find for my CS9
Now that I'm long since retired, I carry a 9mm Shield with an Apex trigger kit and fiber optic sights.
The CS9 is even smaller than the Shield. My 68 year old eyes require "Bright Sites" that I couldn't find for my CS9
ColbyBruce
Member
Ah, the S&W CS9. I owned this one a few days, sold it to a neighbor's kid who is a deputy Marshall. A fine running little pistol, but cosmetically challenged. This was dirt cheap in 2010.
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