S&W 3rd Gen compared to Beretta 92X

[Neon Horse]

Well this topic has been a great discussion, and I didn't expect it to get into the profitability of metal pistols vs. polymer pistols and how different police departments qualify with 3rd gens vs. M&P, but it certainly is eye opening!

For those of you who have the Beretta, how do the trigger and sights compare to a 3rd gen or a Sig? I love my 3rd gens, but I wish they had more sight options like how every 3rd party sight company supports the Sig P-series pistols. Also, the triggers are a little heavier than I'd like, whereas a Sig can get worked down to as low as a 2.5 lbs trigger.

My only experience with 3rd Gen Smiths is with the 4006 (so maybe other models are better). I like the 4006, but felt the trigger was a bit mushy though satisfactory. I like Beretta triggers especially with the X models having the included D sping to lighten it up. I haven't tried the Beretta trigger upgrades available but I hear the trigger gets even better. Hearsay is what you want, right?

 

[Trooper224]

Well this topic has been a great discussion, and I didn't expect it to get into the profitability of metal pistols vs. polymer pistols and how different police departments qualify with 3rd gens vs. M&P, but it certainly is eye opening!

For those of you who have the Beretta, how do the trigger and sights compare to a 3rd gen or a Sig? I love my 3rd gens, but I wish they had more sight options like how every 3rd party sight company supports the Sig P-series pistols. Also, the triggers are a little heavier than I'd like, whereas a Sig can get worked down to as low as a 2.5 lbs trigger.

This is not a true apples to apples comparison, as the triggers on my Berettas aren't stock, but my 4500 series pistols are.

The DA pull on the 92 is longer than the S&W. The S&W has the shortest DA pull of any DA/SA gun I've used. This includes about every brand you care to name. Both are smooth with the Beretta being a bit more so. I would rate the SA pull on the Beretta as superior to the S&W with a cleaner break, but not by a huge margin. The reset on the Beretta is extremely short due to the installation of a Langdon Tactical Optimal performance Trigger Bar on each pistol. The S&Ws reset is nearly as short in its stock form. Also the shortest reset I've encountered on a stock DA/SA gun.

The Berettas all average 7.5-8.0 pounds on the DA pull and 4.5-5.0 on the SA pull. This is with the installation of reduced power hammer springs. Both of my 4500 series pistols are stock, with DA pulls in the 10.0-10.5 pound range and SA pulls between 5.5-6.0 pounds. In stock form I think I might prefer the S&W trigger. Pull weights are about the same when unmodified and the S&W features a shorter reset and DA pull in that form.

The Beretta has the advantage of far greater aftermarket support if trigger work is desired and it doesn't take much to give one a pretty slick trigger. On the other hand, I don't find anything onerous about the S&W trigger. It's a bit heavier, but the shorter DA pull and short reset help to counterbalance this. If you can't perform with a 10 pound DA and a six pound SA, you need more practice and less widgets.

 

[SWCZSIG-Vinny]

Not to take anything away from metal-framed Berettas or 3rd Gen Smiths....You can still buy an outstanding CZ-75 Full size or Compact hammer-fired DA/SA metal-framed CZ for about what the Smiths sold for 30 years ago.
CZ's are current production with a full compliment of factory and aftermarket support. Put one in your hand and shoot one if you get the chance.
And if you want a 3rd gen Smith, there's still plenty of good examples out there.
IMHO there's no need to beat a dead horse wishing Smith would turn the clock back 30 years.
Just Say'in.

 

[Neon Horse]

Not to take anything away from metal-framed Berettas or 3rd Gen Smiths....You can still buy an outstanding CZ-75 Full size or Compact hammer-fired DA/SA metal-framed CZ for about what the Smiths sold for 30 years ago.
CZ's are current production with a full compliment of factory and aftermarket support. Put one in your hand and shoot one if you get the chance.
And if you want a 3rd gen Smith, there's still plenty of good examples out there.
IMHO there's no need to beat a dead horse wishing Smith would turn the clock back 30 years.
Just Say'in.

Oh, man! Way to open this thing up!

I love CZ too! I have full sized and compacts. Love how they feel.

 

[Decker]

I've got a Beretta Centurian and a 5906, both that I bought brand new.
The mushy, long DA trigger pull of the 5906 is something I never got used to, but I do like the pistol in general (also have a similar 6906... same feeling).
But I have to give the Centurian the nod between the two overall.

BUT, as long as that can of worms has been opened, I bought a new stainless CZ75b a couple of years ago, and when push comes to shove, it's the CZ that I would keep.
To add insult to injury, I also bought a CZ Tactical Sport soon after I got the 75b. Oh my, what a dreamy pistol with a trigger to die for.

 

[Trooper224]

There's a reason why CZ pistols and their copies are the most used design in action shooting sports. Their ergonomics are excellent over a wide range of users and their all steel construction makes for a very soft shooting competition gun. Due to the design, they tend to break trigger springs and guide rods if those parts aren't kept well lubed and the DA trigger has a very long reach for many shooters. However, many shooters feel the pros outweigh the cons. I had an old Cold War era CZ75 I wish I'd kept and I've been tempted by some of the newer models.

 

[PeteC]

...I bought a new stainless CZ75b a couple of years ago, and when push comes to shove, it's the CZ that I would keep.

Well OK then... but even as a CZ fan, and as I am staring middle age into its ugly face, I would ask this: If you had the Ferrari... the Rolex... the Shirt and the Sonny Crockett Haircut... what would you carry in your shoulder holster, a CZ or a Smith & Wesson?

Jokes aside, I think it would be interesting to have a thread that compared CZ and 3rd gen S&W guns. As long as they are similar - I am sure that if you gave S&W $1800 per copy, they could make a dream gun too.

 

[Trooper224]

To be fair, some of the CZ models mentioned are more akin to S&W Performance Center guns. Compare a stock CZ75 to a stock S&W 3rd Gen and it's more of a preference than performance difference.

 

[Classic Radio99]

Well, to get this even more off center, the one thing I miss from the olden days is a hammer-fired DAO pistol. Too bad the Beretta doesn't have a third option, safety / decocker / DAO.
I would jump at it, if a major manufacturer would produce a DAO pistol with external hammer. I don't care if it's plastic or metal.
I realize I'm kind of an outlier, but there are a lot of advantages to a DAO, even though you have to be more diligent in training.
The first is safety, I believe the long trigger pull helps reduce negligent discharges. And especially when holstering, riding the hammer with your thumb tells you if the trigger is being snagged and stops bad stuff from happening.
Secondly, I have DAO's from S&W and Ruger, plus revolvers, and they all operate pretty much the same, especially having with no safety. I don't need to remember which gun is in my hand and how to operate that particular safety lever. When I pull the trigger they fire, (after that long pull, of course)
Lastly, I have people tell me to get a Glock, they don't have safety levers either! Yes, but they have no way to do the equivalent of thumbing the hammer, unless you get the aftermarket Striker Control Device. That adds another $80-90 to an already expensive pistol. (Glock perfection, indeed!)
Although I really like my 3953, 3914DAO, 6946, and Ruger P89, the mags for the S&W guns are getting a little rare and expensive.
Oh well, that's they way it goes..

 

[hammy5150]

I guess I'm derailing the thread further but I wonder why S&W didn't bother trying to adapt the 3rd Gens into a polymer frame '4th Gen' as heretical as that might sound. It'd alleviate their issues of being expensive to produce and relatively unergonomic, a lot of other manufacturers transitioned into polymer DA/SA often built off their metal ones (CZ P-07, Jericho 941, Sig Pro, etc.). I think a polymer framed TSW line could've remained relatively profitable for S&W.

 

[SWCZSIG-Vinny]

As good as the Full size CZ-75's are; the Compact alloy-framed CZ-75 P-01, PCR, or the all-steed 75 Compact may be even better for EDC. And you can find 'em brand new for <$600.

Don't get me wrong, I really like my stainless/alloy 3913NL and CS9; there's almost nothing in that size all-metal DA/SA that compares.

But upgrades in sights, parts, etc. for a pistol that's been long ago discontinued are very limited compared to current production CZ's; or Beretta or SIG's for that matter. A SIG Red-Box factory recon ain't a bad deal either if we're talk'in metal-framed options.

Sorry OP if I went off track.

 

[SWCZSIG-Vinny]

I guess I'm derailing the thread further but I wonder why S&W didn't bother trying to adapt the 3rd Gens into a polymer frame '4th Gen' as heretical as that might sound. It'd alleviate their issues of being expensive to produce and relatively unergonomic, a lot of other manufacturers transitioned into polymer DA/SA often built off their metal ones (CZ P-07, Jericho 941, Sig Pro, etc.). I think a polymer framed TSW line could've remained relatively profitable for S&W.

Plastic strikers are less costly to build; and I think S&W is chasing the big numbers. One of the things a smaller factory like CZ can do is fill a niche for the more limited DA/SA market. Their P-07/P-09 is an incredibly good firearm with their Omega trigger system that allows a quick change of included parts from SAO/Safety to DA/SA De-cocker with simple tools. And low $400's. As someone once said: CZ is the best firearm nobody knows about.

It's not surprising that many 3rd Gen fans transitioned to CZ's to fill the void.