S&W .44 ID...?

[jack007]

Hello.
I just bought an antique S&W DA revolver. I'm sure I probably paid way too much, but I got it from an elderly gentleman that I respect.

He couldn't even tell me the caliber and he's been selling antique guns for 40 years! He suspected it was a .44-40.
The condition isn't the greatest. It has a lot of flaked off nickel finish.

I bought some .44-40 snap caps made from Starline brass and they fit perfectly.
Can someone confirm the model/caliber? Possible shipping date?
The cylinder is 1 9/16". The S/N is 7348 on the butt. However there is a S/N stamped on the cylinder of 7343.
Mistake at factory or replaced? The fonts are different.

I'd love to shoot it a few times but cannot find any BP loads and I don't reload. I would have been thrilled with just a box of 50. That'd last me for a year.
Also, the cylinder is sometimes loose after closing and you have to cock and pull the trigger to get it to lock? Other than that, it actually feels very tight.

Any help would be most appreciated! I'd be embarassed to say what I paid for it. I consider the gentleman and his wife friends so I'd never consider complaining. I definitely paid enough that the price of a factory letter wouldn't be much of an expense at this point and I already downloaded the form.

I can upload more pics if desired.
Thanks so much!

 

[mrcvs]

You have a .44 Double Action Frontier manufactured from 1886 to 1913. To get an exact date of shipping, as well as a shipping location, you can send for a factory letter:

Letter Process – Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation

When you state you probably paid too much for your revolver, can you state what you have invested in it? These have increased a fair amount recently and yours appears to have much original finish. It might be worth more than you think.

Please do upload more photographs.

I should add that 15,340 of these were manufactured, and the caliber is .44-40.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass, Jack! Rather than make you more uncomfortable by putting you on the spot, I think we can give you a value range. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the .44 Frontier is in the VG condition category. The Standard Catalog of S&W, 4th Edition, which is 5 years old now, gives a value of $1200 for VG. Likely, that value has gone up. I hope some experts will weigh in with their assessments.

 

[handejector]

Show us a pic of the cylinder from the rear that lets us see the serial number and the chambers.

 

[jack007]

It's okay...I have broad shoulders. LOL
I gave $1800 for it. He can use the money.


Here's a pic of the cylinder S/N. I thought it interesting that it's so close to the one on the butt...


Any ideas on the issue with it sometimes not locking up when you close it...until you cock and release hammer.


Thinking about buying commercial loads, dumping the powder and refilling it with FFF?

 

[iby]

Might be just GUNK in the mechanism.
Flush it out and re-oil it first thing.
the 44-40 usually brings more $ than 44 Russ.
nice old gun

 

[Zarr]

Welcome to the Forum, from Western Massachusetts.

 

[first-model]

The S/N is 7348 on the butt. However there is a S/N stamped on the cylinder of 7343.
Mistake at factory or replaced?

Some years ago I had a S&W top break safety hammerless that had mismatched serial numbers between the frame and the barrel latch. But it was only the last digit ... and like your gun, it was a 3 and an 8.

I think this might just be a slip-up at the factory. In certain lighting condition an 8 could easily look like a 3.

I'd normally pass on a gun with mismatched serial numbered parts, but in this case I'd probably give it a pass.

Mike

 

[mrcvs]

I gave $1800 for it.

Thinking about buying commercial loads, dumping the powder and refilling it with FFF?

In today's market, for an original revolver such as this, $1800 isn't a horrible number. You would be hard pressed to find this at $1800 in retail venues, although at auction you could likely get it for less, but these don't turn up every day, either.

Yes, black powder only. However, why buy commercial loads and dump the powder??? Buy new brass, size and seat primers, and then load black powder. FFg or FFFg is fine, the latter will have more of a punch as the density of the powder per unit volume is greater.

 

[jack007]

Yes, black powder only. However, why buy commercial loads and dump the powder??? Buy new brass, size and seat primers, and then load black powder

I don't reload. But, unless I'm missing something, brass is simply not availabe? I spoke with Buffalo and the guy just laughed. Said he had no idea if/when... they have ZERO brass and almost ZERO primers. Crazy times! So, maybe you might see why I would dump the modern powder and replace with black? I do have a can of FFF and a can of FF.

 

[jack007]

I'd normally pass on a gun with mismatched serial numbered parts, but in this case I'd probably give it a pass.

I do appreciate everyone being so welcomong and not beating up on the newb! LOL
It looks like I didn't get horribly burned. It is what it is.


As far as it not locking up every time, apparently this is not "normal" as the old guy told me? LOL
I am fairly proficient but more with autos and machine guns. I think I'll take this by my master Smith wheelgun guy. If he can build a 686 from a block of stainless, I suppose he can figure this out. The issue may be if something is broken...I hear that there are no parts for these old guns?

 

[mrcvs]

You have to reload in order to accomplish what you desire. You just can't pull a bullet (with your fingers?) and dump the smokeless powder and replace with black powder and just push the bullet back in with your thumb.

 

[jack007]

You have to reload in order to accomplish what you desire. You just can't pull a bullet (with your fingers?) and dump the smokeless powder and replace with black powder and just push the bullet back in with your thumb

Well, I've pulled bullets with a kinetic puller for years. Tapped the projectiles back in or used a small vice with leather in the jaws and pressed them back in. I know it's not properly crimped etc... I'm shooting this for historical fun, not trying to hit the X at 25 yards.

My fingers? Not understanding the sarcasm? When I think "reloading" I think a Dillon or RCBS setup. I used the term meaning I'd literally RELOAD the unfired shell. When I was younger most called it handloading. Semantics....

 

[merl67]

A fellow by the name of Turner Kirkland (some might recognize the name) said that he would reload obsolete calibers using a nail to punch out the old primer press a new primer fill the case with an appropriate charge of black powder then thumb press an appropriate size round lead ball over the charge. Probably not real accurate, but he seemed to think a dollar a round was too much to shoot these old guns as he called them.. This from a guy who probably had enough money to burn a herd of wet mules lol

 

[mmaher94087]

Jack, the rear most cylinder stop notch is the one that locks the cylinder in battery. When the revolver is closed, make sure the rear notch aligns with the bolt or cylinder stop in the frame. The forward notch and 'free groove' are to prevent overtravel of the cylinder. The forward notch holds the cylinder from rotating when the hammer is pulled. I recommend removing the stocks and liberally spraying carb or brake cleaner or CLR into the cylinder stop recess while holding the revolver upside down. It's very messy but the intent is to flush out any gunk around the stop. These DA's have a stop that is spring loaded and contained in the top of the trigger unlike any other S&W.

 

[merl67]

I went back and reread the OPs post if the cylinder is closed with the free groove over the stop this is exactly what it would do. I don't think there is anything wrong. As Mike has said a good flushing, and relube is a good idea no telling last time it was cleaned.

 

[opoefc]

Serial # 7348 was made Aug 11, 1889. I suspect the cyl.number is a mistime, however check the back sideof the right grip to see what number is there. If the grip are original, there will be the gun's serial number stamped, or written, there. Ed

 

[jack007]

however check the back sideof the right grip to see what number is there

I'm sorry. I should have posted that from the get go. Yes, I pulled the grips and there is indeed a 7348 faintly scratched in.



Thank you for dating my gun!!! Such an invaluable resource this forum!

 

[BMur]

Case crimp required

Jack007,

Shooting the 44/40 black powder load is quite powerful in these double action frames and requires a case crimp to avoid bullet creep. Recoil is stout so just pressing the bullet back into the case isn't enough. If the bullet creeps forward on an adjacent chamber from recoil you will introduce an air gap or induce a jam. Both are bad!
I use a collet crimper made by Lee. Works great and they are cheap.
You might get away with no crimp with the smaller caliber pistol rounds but not the 44's.

Murph