S&W 6906, Glocks and P320's for Carry

DirtyShirt

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I was shot through the hand with a .22 Magnum when I was 14. I recovered fully since then but it is a sobering thing to be accidentally shot. Maybe I was lucky that it happened when I was young and I could learn from it. It made me realize at a young age just how dangerous this thing is that we do. You don't even realize it when it happens, it just happens and now you're dead(or shot). You better do the things necessary to keep yourself safe before that moment comes.

I've been shooting for over 30 years. I have been concealed carrying for 15 years. Sometimes we get complacent with what we've been doing and need a reminder that what we do; as people who use and carry guns everyday, is really dangerous. Guns are fun but guns are dangerous. They're supposed to be dangerous. That's the point. If I could magically stop a murderer by shooting him with a paintball gun then that's what I would use. But that doesn't work so I have to carry very deadly dangerous tools.

With that being said, the controversies around the P320 has made me think about what I do in my daily carry routine and with my carry guns. I carry a Glock 32 in an IWB Kydex holster on my right hip. Glocks are safe enough for a striker fired pistol but there was a time when the phrase Glock Leg was commonly used bc people were shooting themselves with their Glocks. Many of you here are probably old enough to remember this. That doesn't mean Glocks are unsafe. It just means that the trigger mechanism on a Glock requires extra care and attention when holstering and handling the pistol. You can see pictures from decades ago of cops with their revolvers and they have their finger on the trigger as soon as the revolver comes out of the holster. They would run & chase suspects with their finger on the trigger. This was deemed acceptable back then because those revovlers had 14 pound double action service triggers. That's something you would never do with a Glock. Traditional double action triggers are more forgiving and this becomes important when discussing concealed carry and the proficiency level of many concealed carriers today.

I grew up shooting traditional double action pistols. Beretta 92, S&W Third Gens, all kinds of revovlers. Handling a DA trigger and the transition from the DA first shot to the SA second shot is just second nature for me.

I recently decided to switch from my Glock 32 and start carrying my S&W 6906 again. I took my 6906 to the range today and put 300 rounds through it. It ran like sewing machine. Such a nice handling gun. The grip is the perfect size for my hands. I was using the 15 round 5906 magazines with the magazine sleeve on them. The recoil impulse is really nice. No snappiness, just a soft push and I ride the sights back to the target. I'm also going from 357 SIG to 9mm so that too may be why it feels so nice.

What's my point? Glocks are safe enough, sure. But once you are trained on the traditional double action pull it's nice to have a gun that gives you that extra layer of protection from 'Glocking' your leg when holstering or unholstering. Your finger instinctively wants to pop into that trigger guard. Under stress our fingers naturally squeeze. Grabbing or squeezing with the one hand causes sympathetic movement of our other hand. We're never perfect all of the time, especially under stress, especially under pressure. The things we do at the range shooting paper in the air conditioning are not the things we're going to do in the middle of a gun fight. On a traditional double action gun that initial DA trigger pull keeps you from cranking off a round prematurely because your adrenaline is through the roof and you unknowingly pulled back your trigger too much too soon. The Glock NY trigger was created for this very reason. Under stress we do things we don't realize we're doing. Many concealed carriers don't have any training besides going to the range and shooting paper. Which is fine, honestly. That's honestly fine but the issue arises from the gun handling aspect. Does this person have enough training to safely handle their firearm under stress. BTW I love Glocks and am not knocking them. I'm just using them as an example because it's what I carry.

Also, the difficulty of learning to shoot a traditional double action trigger is WAY overblown. People today act like learning to shoot a Beretta 92, Beretta PX4, P220, P226 or a revolver is some monumental task. Everyone used to shoot traditional double action guns years ago. Also, if you learn to shoot a traditional double action trigger you will be a better shooter across the board. Learning to shoot a traditional double action trigger will improve your skill at holding your sight picture, holding sight alignment, grip, stance. You can't fake it when learning a traditional double action trigger. You can fake it with a Glock, M&P, P320, etc. People with very poor proficiency and low skill levels can pick up a striker fired gun and shoot a paper target acceptably well. This is one reason police departments switched to striker fired guns. Qualification levels improved. However, the shooter gains a false sense of confidence with their gun. They'll equate that relatively decent performance a shooting paper to thinking they are skilled with their gun across the board. They are not. Handling your gun under stress IRL is not the same thing as shooting paper.

In conclusion, my point is that we should step back for a moment and look at what we're doing and if we doing it safely. Are the things that we're doing actually in line with our own personal proficiency levels? Are we just using something because it's the latest thing on the market? Or because it looks really cool with the compensated slide? Or because we saw a YouTube video and now 'I need that new gun so my friends and people at the range don't think I'm a boomer fudd'.

Step Back and Honestly Assess Your Situation
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My guess is that they're either not issuing them on a unit level or are carrying them at Condition 2 or 3. No one wants to be the next to get Sudden Incidental Gunshotted.
In my day when we come off duty the first order of business was to clear our weapon. The report stated the Airman removed holstered weapon from belt and placed on table.
 
"Glock leg" was caused by reholstering with a finger on the trigger, or something getting caught inside the trigger guard while reholstering. Langdon Tactical Technologies makes a Striker Control Device that replaces the back plate on the slide with one that also fills the striker channel and pivots up when the striker comes back. You place your thumb on the back of the slide when reholstering like you do with a hammer-fired gun, and if something's in the trigger guard, you know it right away. I held off on buying Glocks until this became available, now I have a G45 and a G19.5, and they both have SCDs on them.

I won't carry a gun unless it has a DA first shot or a thumb safety (or a SCD).
 
I was shooting a CZ-83 (9mm Browning/.380) over the weekend. I also grew up on DA/SA. The CZ is perfectly safe having a round in the chamber and de-cocked in a condition where the first shot out of holster will be DA. The pistol can be carried with the hammer "cocked and locked" like a 1911. It also has a good trigger in DA mode and an excellent SA trigger. I own Glocks, but the CZ-82 and CZ-83 blowback pistols are easy to shoot, and, in my opinion safer. Sadly, these weapons are out of production.

CZ-83(2).jpg
CZ82-1.jpg
 
Seriously, I owned a 6906 for several years and it served me well. It is the only gun I ever sold that I regret selling.

I've mentioned this before, but the only reason is because I broke a hammer spring for it and had a hard time getting a replacement.

I also had an incident during a live fire exercise in which I accidentally engaged the safety and couldn't figure out why the gun wasn't firing.

After that I decided never to carry a gun with a manual safety ever again.

According to HRH my wife, I'm no longer in the market for a new handgun but if they made a decocker only 6906 I would seriously consider it.
 
Glocks as well as many other pistols will discharge if something gets hung up in the trigger guard besides a finger. Draw strings from jackets, worn out leather gear, etc will do it. Glocks and such carried in pockets, bags, etc, are susceptible when other junk is also carried in the same pocket. Or stuffed in a car someplace without a holster where the driver thinks they can access the pistol quickly.

From the old LE pictures, most of those old revolver holsters had open trigger guards. It wasn't that uncommon for some to establish their trigger finger position while the gun was still in the holster. Yes, some of those guns (Like Colt Trooper and Borser Patrol Model) had stuff triggers, but departments were more open to trigger jobs and more than a few S&Ws sported DA pulls closer to seven or eight pounds (I've got three Ks that have actions jobs that date from the late 80s to early 90s that are that light and smooth) As I recall, it wasn't until the late 70s or early 80s that the Jordan style duty holster received its final upgrade by covering the trigger guard.
 
I don't recall who originated it, but back in the day, there were revolver duty holsters made with a flat spring inside the trigger guard as a retention device. Drawing the pistol involved inserting the trigger finger in the trigger guard to depress the spring to allow the gun to be pulled from the holster. Apparently quite popular. IIRC, the Speed Safety/Safety Speed clamshell holster had the release button inside the trigger guard.
 
I was shot through the hand with a .22 Magnum when I was 14. I recovered fully since then but it is a sobering thing to be accidentally shot. Maybe I was lucky that it happened when I was young and I could learn from it. It made me realize at a young age just how dangerous this thing is that we do. You don't even realize it when it happens, it just happens and now you're dead(or shot). You better do the things necessary to keep yourself safe before that moment comes.

I've been shooting for over 30 years. I have been concealed carrying for 15 years. Sometimes we get complacent with what we've been doing and need a reminder that what we do; as people who use and carry guns everyday, is really dangerous. Guns are fun but guns are dangerous. They're supposed to be dangerous. That's the point. If I could magically stop a murderer by shooting him with a paintball gun then that's what I would use. But that doesn't work so I have to carry very deadly dangerous tools.

With that being said, the controversies around the P320 has made me think about what I do in my daily carry routine and with my carry guns. I carry a Glock 32 in an IWB Kydex holster on my right hip. Glocks are safe enough for a striker fired pistol but there was a time when the phrase Glock Leg was commonly used bc people were shooting themselves with their Glocks. Many of you here are probably old enough to remember this. That doesn't mean Glocks are unsafe. It just means that the trigger mechanism on a Glock requires extra care and attention when holstering and handling the pistol. You can see pictures from decades ago of cops with their revolvers and they have their finger on the trigger as soon as the revolver comes out of the holster. They would run & chase suspects with their finger on the trigger. This was deemed acceptable back then because those revovlers had 14 pound double action service triggers. That's something you would never do with a Glock. Traditional double action triggers are more forgiving and this becomes important when discussing concealed carry and the proficiency level of many concealed carriers today.

I grew up shooting traditional double action pistols. Beretta 92, S&W Third Gens, all kinds of revovlers. Handling a DA trigger and the transition from the DA first shot to the SA second shot is just second nature for me.

I recently decided to switch from my Glock 32 and start carrying my S&W 6906 again. I took my 6906 to the range today and put 300 rounds through it. It ran like sewing machine. Such a nice handling gun. The grip is the perfect size for my hands. I was using the 15 round 5906 magazines with the magazine sleeve on them. The recoil impulse is really nice. No snappiness, just a soft push and I ride the sights back to the target. I'm also going from 357 SIG to 9mm so that too may be why it feels so nice.

What's my point? Glocks are safe enough, sure. But once you are trained on the traditional double action pull it's nice to have a gun that gives you that extra layer of protection from 'Glocking' your leg when holstering or unholstering. Your finger instinctively wants to pop into that trigger guard. Under stress our fingers naturally squeeze. Grabbing or squeezing with the one hand causes sympathetic movement of our other hand. We're never perfect all of the time, especially under stress, especially under pressure. The things we do at the range shooting paper in the air conditioning are not the things we're going to do in the middle of a gun fight. On a traditional double action gun that initial DA trigger pull keeps you from cranking off a round prematurely because your adrenaline is through the roof and you unknowingly pulled back your trigger too much too soon. The Glock NY trigger was created for this very reason. Under stress we do things we don't realize we're doing. Many concealed carriers don't have any training besides going to the range and shooting paper. Which is fine, honestly. That's honestly fine but the issue arises from the gun handling aspect. Does this person have enough training to safely handle their firearm under stress. BTW I love Glocks and am not knocking them. I'm just using them as an example because it's what I carry.

Also, the difficulty of learning to shoot a traditional double action trigger is WAY overblown. People today act like learning to shoot a Beretta 92, Beretta PX4, P220, P226 or a revolver is some monumental task. Everyone used to shoot traditional double action guns years ago. Also, if you learn to shoot a traditional double action trigger you will be a better shooter across the board. Learning to shoot a traditional double action trigger will improve your skill at holding your sight picture, holding sight alignment, grip, stance. You can't fake it when learning a traditional double action trigger. You can fake it with a Glock, M&P, P320, etc. People with very poor proficiency and low skill levels can pick up a striker fired gun and shoot a paper target acceptably well. This is one reason police departments switched to striker fired guns. Qualification levels improved. However, the shooter gains a false sense of confidence with their gun. They'll equate that relatively decent performance a shooting paper to thinking they are skilled with their gun across the board. They are not. Handling your gun under stress IRL is not the same thing as shooting paper.

In conclusion, my point is that we should step back for a moment and look at what we're doing and if we doing it safely. Are the things that we're doing actually in line with our own personal proficiency levels? Are we just using something because it's the latest thing on the market? Or because it looks really cool with the compensated slide? Or because we saw a YouTube video and now 'I need that new gun so my friends and people at the range don't think I'm a boomer fudd'.

Step Back and Honestly Assess Your Situation
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Very well said. I too grew up with DA/SA pistols and revolvers (And SA''s like 1911's and Roger SA wheel guns). I gotta admit I cringe when I see anyone carry a striker gun with a "Trigger safety" appendix carry. Yea, I know "it only goes off if you pull the trigger", point is, it doesn't take much to "pull" and with no safety involved to ME it seems your adding an entire level of unnecessary risk. A lot of folks love 'em ( and a lot of young folks don't know anything BUT them). I still prefer a metal pistol with either a good DA/SA Trigger, DAO or SA with a manual safety. Do what you will, but know that piece you're carrying is deadly, and the less safe the weapon is, the more likely you are to have a safety issue. Choose wisely (not always what the kewl kids are using). ' Newer" does NOT necessarily mean "Better".
 
Glock knew they had a problem (many years ago) and they fixed it. Sig knows they have a problem and refuse to fix it. When the Glocks started showing up in my dept and academy I hated them. I taught and carried with a Sig P228. I developed carpal tunnel and could not decock my Sig causing me to buy my first Glock

I do not believe in putting your hand on the trigger IN ANY situation until it is time to fire. That includes DA, SA, striker or phaser. I still own several revolvers but generally carry a Shield +, 365, or for walking around my neighborhood, a 43x with no round in the chamber. As always YMMV.
 
Every bit of professional firearms training shows that an empty chamber is not a good path. If you are not comfortable carry any platform with a chambered round, sell it and get/use something else
with which you are comfortable.

The 3rd generation S&Ws seem to be fine guns but that the bassackwards safety/decocker is an abomination; at best counter intuitive and hard to operate. If I was to get any third generation model, DAO is the only way I would go.
 
Step Back and Honestly Assess Your Situation

I completely agree. The modern sprint to light triggers, no safeties and appendix carry is a recipe for disaster for a lot of shooters.
Training Issues.

"An amateur practices until he can do everything right and a professional practices until he can't do anything wrong." JMHO
 
The guy on Lucky Gunner had a similar take on this a few years ago. When I carry my Shield, the safety is on. My Glock has a striker control device. My 649 requires neither.
 

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