cherrypointmarine
Member
If this was one of my 945's , there's only place I would send it to and for sure it wouldn't be S&W . And that would be BMCM , he's the man .
S&W 945 Fail to Extract
- Thread starter whooper333
- Start date
To further the above thought:
It has been revealed by others in searches that I have found that some Model 745 pistols had errors in manufacture affecting the depth of the hole where the base of the coil extractor spring sits. I can neither confirm nor deny this allegation. I can however tell you that I own two 745's and one of them was good to go as it came to me and the other one was an extraction FAIL FAIL FAIL and after reading the possible problem with the depth of that hole, I elected to shim it.
My records indicate that I did that shimming some 1,600 to 1,700 rounds ago. Zero failures since that time. I run 200 and 230 grain plated and 200 grain LSWC. I only run handloads. I love my 745's and they are both (now!) runners.
Shim your extractor and see if you can get this pistol to run.
It has been revealed by others in searches that I have found that some Model 745 pistols had errors in manufacture affecting the depth of the hole where the base of the coil extractor spring sits. I can neither confirm nor deny this allegation. I can however tell you that I own two 745's and one of them was good to go as it came to me and the other one was an extraction FAIL FAIL FAIL and after reading the possible problem with the depth of that hole, I elected to shim it.
My records indicate that I did that shimming some 1,600 to 1,700 rounds ago. Zero failures since that time. I run 200 and 230 grain plated and 200 grain LSWC. I only run handloads. I love my 745's and they are both (now!) runners.
Shim your extractor and see if you can get this pistol to run.
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whooper333
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did not mean to step on anyone's toes, yes it was a attempt of sarcastic humor. sometimes postings can get so dry and technical the eyes start to glaze over( more humor)
sevens did you collect any data on how deep the extractor spring hole was, how much shim you added, if gauged what was the pound pull at the extractor? any info would be helpful.
as for questions about fte; spent case in chamber, new round bullet against spent case primer, breach face against new round case base.
I am going to try to get as much info in this thread so that if it starts working and someone else runs into this they might find some answers.
lastly to my question about this gun being a thoroughbred, like I said I have other 3rd gen guns, none have experienced this issue, 10mm,45,9mm. there is a youtv video justinopinion his new or new to him 945, on the video he is having the same issues. I don't care if the gun can cycle empty cases, its the live rounds that matter.
sevens did you collect any data on how deep the extractor spring hole was, how much shim you added, if gauged what was the pound pull at the extractor? any info would be helpful.
as for questions about fte; spent case in chamber, new round bullet against spent case primer, breach face against new round case base.
I am going to try to get as much info in this thread so that if it starts working and someone else runs into this they might find some answers.
lastly to my question about this gun being a thoroughbred, like I said I have other 3rd gen guns, none have experienced this issue, 10mm,45,9mm. there is a youtv video justinopinion his new or new to him 945, on the video he is having the same issues. I don't care if the gun can cycle empty cases, its the live rounds that matter.
You didn't step on anyone's toes -- I was merely trying to say that I think getting Smith & Wesson involved is futile and I would REALLY suggest that you don't send it to them. Nothing more, nothing less. I believe everyone working there currently is well beyond ignorant on the subject of a 945. That sounds personal, I don't mean for it to be.
None, none, zero, sorry. It wouldn't run as it came to me and I believe (after the fact) that this is why it was sold. I tried twice and in two slightly different ways to shim the spring and the first one worked for a bit -- but then failed because my choice of shim was a poor choice and it changed shape on me. My second choice for a shim did not/has not changed over time and the gun runs beautifully now.
Sorry that I have no technical anything. Everything that I did was informal and NON-permanent alteration, so that I could start over from square one if I needed. It appears that I don't need to.
How much extractor tension? I have no number and I never did any measure beyond:
"this feels weak"
"this is what it a proper running S&W .45 feels like"
"this change seems better"
"maybe this is TOO much"
"Hey, that feels really good, let's get to the range"
I'm not suggesting that anyone hire me to fix their pistols.
But I've had pretty good success on getting mine to run.I don't tend to break my stuff but I loooooove to shop old and used, so I've gotten quite used to dealing with some problem children.
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whooper333
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yes this is a good place to seek advise, some may be good, some maybe not as good, but overall you come out ahead. I appreciate the input its all good and helpful.
an example of this is that I was thinking of maybe stretching the original spring. someone said that is not a good idea, shim it if anything. (I am paraphrasing) but that was the intension. then I remembered many years ago I had to adjust the pressure of a high pressure hydraulic system. the way it was done was by using shims under the spring.
so stretching the extractor spring is a dumb idea and I was straightened out here, thank you whoever corrected me.
so with all this input I think I am going to do what fastbolt mentioned. I am going to use the imada force gauges I have come up with a hook similar to what fastbolt shows in his photos. install the original spring on a slip pin in the slide so it can be easily taken in and out and measure the original extractor tension at first movement. then try the same thing with the numrich and midway springs.
then I will have some relateable numbers that I can post here.
so here is where I am screwed up; I don't mean to harp on fastbolt, but going back to what that S&WPC guy told him about moment of mass thing; is the consensus that I should increase extractor tension to prevent fte. or is it not so fast there, it could be the shake rattle and roll is causing the extractor spring to go into resonance thus causing the fte and it might require a weaker spring to correct the issue. I think I am starting to see stars again.
the reason I say this is because the original spring is made of the thickest wire and has the most turns anything else I am guessing will measure less in pull weight. maybe I should get the numbers and we can continue from there.
an example of this is that I was thinking of maybe stretching the original spring. someone said that is not a good idea, shim it if anything. (I am paraphrasing) but that was the intension. then I remembered many years ago I had to adjust the pressure of a high pressure hydraulic system. the way it was done was by using shims under the spring.
so stretching the extractor spring is a dumb idea and I was straightened out here, thank you whoever corrected me.
so with all this input I think I am going to do what fastbolt mentioned. I am going to use the imada force gauges I have come up with a hook similar to what fastbolt shows in his photos. install the original spring on a slip pin in the slide so it can be easily taken in and out and measure the original extractor tension at first movement. then try the same thing with the numrich and midway springs.
then I will have some relateable numbers that I can post here.
so here is where I am screwed up; I don't mean to harp on fastbolt, but going back to what that S&WPC guy told him about moment of mass thing; is the consensus that I should increase extractor tension to prevent fte. or is it not so fast there, it could be the shake rattle and roll is causing the extractor spring to go into resonance thus causing the fte and it might require a weaker spring to correct the issue. I think I am starting to see stars again.
the reason I say this is because the original spring is made of the thickest wire and has the most turns anything else I am guessing will measure less in pull weight. maybe I should get the numbers and we can continue from there.
Perhaps you're overthinking things.
This is a .45ACP pistol extractor spring. It isn't a motor valve spring having to support valve timing at sustained high RPM's.
Here's a very quick pic I just took out at my bench of some 3rd gen .45 (10) extractor springs.
The unpainted spring is the Standard spring and the blue one is a Heavier spring.
Note the Standard spring has 5 coil windings and the Heavier one has 6 coil windings. Also note that typical with S&W factory extractor (and other) springs, both the ends are ground flat, making for what S&W engineers call a "closed" spring.
Now, once you start experimenting with non-factory springs, which may not have flattened ends, and which may be of different wire gauge and number of coils, or even different compressed lengths ... you're probably on your own.
If the extractor spring tension is too heavy, you're probably going to cause feeding problems. That's usually due to there being too much resistance (spring tension) acting against the rising case rim being able to slide underneath the extractor hook, "camming" the extractor outward in the right "feeding timing" as the case base slides up the breech face.
If the spring tension is too light, you're going see failures-to-extract. That's caused bu the recoil force (shock) traveling outward. It's going to act upon the extractor (only being held in place by its own mass and its spring), and the extractor's mass and spring tension will be insufficient to hold the extractor hook sufficiently firmly against the case rim at a critical moment. Instead, it may "bounce" outward and over the case rim, and as the slide travels backwards slightly differently than the dropping barrel, the hook will end up bouncing back inward behind the case rim that's now in front of the hook.
The factory engineers gave armorers the "sweet spot" of a recommended tension range. They also gave armorers some optional spring weights in case some particular slide's spring hole depth (or shape at the bottom) might need to be offset with a different spring.
I remember one factory tech telling me that some of the older machinery wasn't nearly as precise, nor was the sharpness of the cutters as easily monitored as it was later, with computers. That was why in the early 59XX slides we might need to use that "nested" extractor spring set made as a Repair Kit for armorers fro a while.
If the bottom of the spring hole wasn't cut square enough to allow the Standard spring to sit all the way down and flat on the bottom, then a lighter spring was chosen and paired with a smaller & taller diameter "inner" spring, to get the tension range up where it needed to be.
Of course, the tech said that if a gun with that wrongly machined spring hole was sent back to the factory, he'd use a hand-turned ball end mill tool to cut bottom of the spring hole to the correct shape, so the standard spring would be used. Naturally, since most armorers aren't experienced factory techs or gunsmiths, they provided armorers with a simple "field" repair method. We got the nested spring kit, which was later replaced with a choice of 2 different standard size single springs to try in a gun with a spring problem, and the nested spring kit became obsolete.
BTW, if you're "seeing stars", you really ought to consider having someone familiar with the pistol take a look at it. No sense in going the "trial & error/never done this" route and risking doing something that may make things worse.
Have you tried to be connected over to the actual Performance Center itself, yet?
Tried to contact forum member BMCM?
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whooper333
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I called jack first again this morning. I have a extractor for the 3rd gen .45cal coming along with a couple more springs and a extractor retaining pin. The numbers given by Becky are; 23569, 10202, 20135. I will have them for spares if needed.
I also made some adapters and a hook tool for my imada gauges to engage the 945 extractor so I can measure the threshold movement pull weight of the different springs I have. I would not have predicted my measurements based on the spring sizes, but here are the actual measurements.
1)Original 945 spring, pull 6.0 to 6.5 lb threshold movement pull, then with a apx. .020 deflection mid point tension of 7.7lb.
2)wolf #10 extra power 27129; pull 7.0 to 7.5lb with a mid point of 8.6lb.
3)numrich r13811 s&w102020000; pull 5.0 to 5.5lb with a mid point of 7.0lb.
4)midway 421788. 072020; pull 4.75 to 5.25lb with a midpoint of 6.5lb.
The midpoint was to see if the pull weight would continue to increase with compression or if it would flatten out. In all cases the weight increased.
For comparison I took my 4516-1 which I can not recall it ever having a hiccup at the range and the extractor hook measures a pull of 3.8 to 4.0lb with a midpoint of 4.6lb.
So the 945 will be assembled with the wolf spring and I will see what happens next time at the range. Like I said, I would not have predicted that the spring with the smallest dia wire and the smallest outside diameter would have the highest measured pull weight at the extractor hook. Stay tuned.
As for stars, I can hold my own. Perhaps not the sharpest tool in the shed but definitely not the dullest. Way to early for me to throw in the towel. I think Nixon said your not defeated when you fail, your defeated when you give up.
Here are some photos
I also made some adapters and a hook tool for my imada gauges to engage the 945 extractor so I can measure the threshold movement pull weight of the different springs I have. I would not have predicted my measurements based on the spring sizes, but here are the actual measurements.
1)Original 945 spring, pull 6.0 to 6.5 lb threshold movement pull, then with a apx. .020 deflection mid point tension of 7.7lb.
2)wolf #10 extra power 27129; pull 7.0 to 7.5lb with a mid point of 8.6lb.
3)numrich r13811 s&w102020000; pull 5.0 to 5.5lb with a mid point of 7.0lb.
4)midway 421788. 072020; pull 4.75 to 5.25lb with a midpoint of 6.5lb.
The midpoint was to see if the pull weight would continue to increase with compression or if it would flatten out. In all cases the weight increased.
For comparison I took my 4516-1 which I can not recall it ever having a hiccup at the range and the extractor hook measures a pull of 3.8 to 4.0lb with a midpoint of 4.6lb.
So the 945 will be assembled with the wolf spring and I will see what happens next time at the range. Like I said, I would not have predicted that the spring with the smallest dia wire and the smallest outside diameter would have the highest measured pull weight at the extractor hook. Stay tuned.
As for stars, I can hold my own. Perhaps not the sharpest tool in the shed but definitely not the dullest. Way to early for me to throw in the towel. I think Nixon said your not defeated when you fail, your defeated when you give up.
Here are some photos
Attachments
FWIW, when we were taught to measure extractor spring tension, it was at the exact moment of deflection being detected. Just as the extractor began to move. Not after it had been moving.
Now, there's also an issue with fitting the extractor in any particular slide. That involves filing the adjustment pad (raised surface behind the hook).
We were never given any measurements for the PC guns, but for the 3rd gen's armorers were originally sold a set of Bar and Flag gauges to measure "fit". They both had Go & No-Go ends. The Bar gauge would fit between the extractor hook's edge and the opposite side of the breech face wall. Go & No-Go is self explanatory. However, I sometimes heard that a particular gun might run best if it was "tightly blocked", meaning the Go gauge would just accept the block (no extractor movement), instead of being a loose fit, but one which wouldn't allow the No-Go end to fit. FWIW, the need for "tightly blocked" fit was something I heard referenced more to the .40's.
The Flag gauge was thinner, and was meant to check the fit behind the extractor hook and the breech face directly behind it. Between the rear of the hook and the breech face. This checked for the extractor to allow space to fit over a case rim (of acceptable tolerances). As time passed armorers were told they no longer need to use the Flag gauges, and they stopped selling them. The inference was that more modern manufacturing specs made measuring that dimension unnecessary.
Here's some pics of the Bar and Flag gauges for 3rd gen .45's.
The Bar gauge:
However, here's a Bar gauge for the original SW1911. Note the difference in measurements of the Go & No-Go dimensions. Presumably, that's because of the different slide design and breech dimensions.
So, I have no idea what the dimensions might be for the PC slides, let alone the 945 slides (or 754/845 models).
For trivia, here's the Flag gauge for the 3rd gen .45 extractor fitting:
Now, if that extractor was fitted on the "too generous" end of things, meaning the Bar gauge, for your particular slide, I could see that a spring tension on the "lighter" end of the normal range (whatever that is for the PC guns, if it's different than the 3rd gen guns) might allow for the hook to more easily sometimes bounce out & over the case rim at times. If this was a 3rd gen gun, I'd try the next heavier spring to see if it resolved the FTE, but at the same time make sure it didn't introduce a failure-to-feed situation because of too much tension. Balancing act.
Also, as I've been told by both armorer instructors and repair techs at S&W ... the final, real proof of the fit and function, once the bench checks are done, is whether the gun actually feeds, fires and extracts normally in live-fire.
Just some thoughts for the interest of discussion. They never discussed the PC guns in armorer classes. Those are things I'd take into consideration to bench check for a regular 3rd gen gun.
Now, there's also an issue with fitting the extractor in any particular slide. That involves filing the adjustment pad (raised surface behind the hook).
We were never given any measurements for the PC guns, but for the 3rd gen's armorers were originally sold a set of Bar and Flag gauges to measure "fit". They both had Go & No-Go ends. The Bar gauge would fit between the extractor hook's edge and the opposite side of the breech face wall. Go & No-Go is self explanatory. However, I sometimes heard that a particular gun might run best if it was "tightly blocked", meaning the Go gauge would just accept the block (no extractor movement), instead of being a loose fit, but one which wouldn't allow the No-Go end to fit. FWIW, the need for "tightly blocked" fit was something I heard referenced more to the .40's.
The Flag gauge was thinner, and was meant to check the fit behind the extractor hook and the breech face directly behind it. Between the rear of the hook and the breech face. This checked for the extractor to allow space to fit over a case rim (of acceptable tolerances). As time passed armorers were told they no longer need to use the Flag gauges, and they stopped selling them. The inference was that more modern manufacturing specs made measuring that dimension unnecessary.
Here's some pics of the Bar and Flag gauges for 3rd gen .45's.
The Bar gauge:
However, here's a Bar gauge for the original SW1911. Note the difference in measurements of the Go & No-Go dimensions. Presumably, that's because of the different slide design and breech dimensions.
So, I have no idea what the dimensions might be for the PC slides, let alone the 945 slides (or 754/845 models).
For trivia, here's the Flag gauge for the 3rd gen .45 extractor fitting:
Now, if that extractor was fitted on the "too generous" end of things, meaning the Bar gauge, for your particular slide, I could see that a spring tension on the "lighter" end of the normal range (whatever that is for the PC guns, if it's different than the 3rd gen guns) might allow for the hook to more easily sometimes bounce out & over the case rim at times. If this was a 3rd gen gun, I'd try the next heavier spring to see if it resolved the FTE, but at the same time make sure it didn't introduce a failure-to-feed situation because of too much tension. Balancing act.
Also, as I've been told by both armorer instructors and repair techs at S&W ... the final, real proof of the fit and function, once the bench checks are done, is whether the gun actually feeds, fires and extracts normally in live-fire.
Just some thoughts for the interest of discussion. They never discussed the PC guns in armorer classes. Those are things I'd take into consideration to bench check for a regular 3rd gen gun.
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whooper333
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I have found the problem with my 945. Wish to thank all the folks that helped out with this project. Bottom line, it turns out that it was poor machining of the chamber by s&w performance center that caused the issue. A 45acp clymer chamber reamer from brownells solved the fail to extract issues. There was a ridge in the chamber about 1/32" from the throat step which cause all the frustration. Turning the clymer chamber reamer with finger tips with cutting oil on reamer cleared out enough of the ridge to allow reliable case extraction at the range.
Before the reamer arrived checked all the extractor dimensions and compared it to the information provided as well as a few .45 cal 3rd gens I own. All dimensions appeared to be in tolerance. Measured the extractor hook pressure in pounds with the wolf extra power #10 spring and found it decreased after the gun was fired about 75 rounds. Changed the spring back to the original spring that came with the weapon because it was the only 5 coil spring I had after buying a host of springs all of which were 4 coil. Before I assembled the extractor I included a .010 shim under the 5 coil spring which gave about 7.5lb pull at the extractor hook at threshold of hook deflection.
Gun at the range with the midway 8 inch recoil spring had 2 fte in 100 rounds fired. Both were on same magazine. Cycled thru the rest of the mags I had and returned to the problem mag 8 rounds loaded and no issues.
Returned to the range a couple of days latter with a clean gun and another 100 rnds. Decided to try some lighter recoil springs. Long story short the wolf #20 lb and the 8" midway give the best results.anything lighter and fte starts up again. Both springs have decreased in length after firing compared to the new length measurements.
Also while waiting for the brownells reamer I blended and polished two spots on the inside of the gun frame adjacent to the barrel feed ramp. I have seen Jerry m. In a video where he cycles thru 5 empty cases. My gun would not allow this because the case mouths would hang up on the rough frame areas I mentioned. After my blending and polishing on the frame inside my gun now does party tricks and feeds 5 empty cases on hand cycle.
Will experiment next range visit with #20 wolf and long midway springs for best performance. Here is a photo of the chamber ridge I scope of.
Before the reamer arrived checked all the extractor dimensions and compared it to the information provided as well as a few .45 cal 3rd gens I own. All dimensions appeared to be in tolerance. Measured the extractor hook pressure in pounds with the wolf extra power #10 spring and found it decreased after the gun was fired about 75 rounds. Changed the spring back to the original spring that came with the weapon because it was the only 5 coil spring I had after buying a host of springs all of which were 4 coil. Before I assembled the extractor I included a .010 shim under the 5 coil spring which gave about 7.5lb pull at the extractor hook at threshold of hook deflection.
Gun at the range with the midway 8 inch recoil spring had 2 fte in 100 rounds fired. Both were on same magazine. Cycled thru the rest of the mags I had and returned to the problem mag 8 rounds loaded and no issues.
Returned to the range a couple of days latter with a clean gun and another 100 rnds. Decided to try some lighter recoil springs. Long story short the wolf #20 lb and the 8" midway give the best results.anything lighter and fte starts up again. Both springs have decreased in length after firing compared to the new length measurements.
Also while waiting for the brownells reamer I blended and polished two spots on the inside of the gun frame adjacent to the barrel feed ramp. I have seen Jerry m. In a video where he cycles thru 5 empty cases. My gun would not allow this because the case mouths would hang up on the rough frame areas I mentioned. After my blending and polishing on the frame inside my gun now does party tricks and feeds 5 empty cases on hand cycle.
Will experiment next range visit with #20 wolf and long midway springs for best performance. Here is a photo of the chamber ridge I scope of.
Attachments
I just found this thread today and have to salute your perseverance in ferreting out the cause of the problem.
As a 945-1 owner, I also say thanks for making a lot of valuable information available as a result the discussions that arose from this being posted.
As a 945-1 owner, I also say thanks for making a lot of valuable information available as a result the discussions that arose from this being posted.
I would posit that while S&W and the Performance Center deserve a rack on the knuckles for allowing this to be shipped out, if you had a chamber problem wholly contained in the barrel, we might be able to blame Briley for that.
Does make me wonder... if Briley provided the barrels to the PC, would they arrive with chamber already cut or would the PC do that?
Bar-Sto was the source for a select few early PC barrels for sure (Briley Custom, Comp-40, more?) but I believe that Briley was the source for the bulk of the PC semiauto barrels.
Does make me wonder... if Briley provided the barrels to the PC, would they arrive with chamber already cut or would the PC do that?
Bar-Sto was the source for a select few early PC barrels for sure (Briley Custom, Comp-40, more?) but I believe that Briley was the source for the bulk of the PC semiauto barrels.
hammy5150
Member
I've been having much the same issue with a 5906TSW that I suspect to be having the same issue as your 945. From what I've read around the forums the early batches of 5906TSWs which this seems to be one of had chambers too tight to reliably extract with different kinds of ammo. I had BMCM change out the extractor spring and polish out the chamber which seemed to remedy the issue initially from when it would FTE at least once every mag but the malfunctions would return on subsequent range outings unless I kept the chamber clean after every session. I considered having the chamber reamed out like you did but permanently altering the chamber is a last resort for me and I'm instead looking for a spare, newer 5906TSW barrel to use instead.
Congrats on resolving the issue.
FWIW, back when I was a junior armorer, there finally came a point when the head armorer showed (trusted) me to learn how to use finishing reamers to carefully remove the occasional high spots in the chambers of an older S&W 3rd gen, as well as clean up the uneven barrel leade once in a while. This wasn't something taught in the armorer classes, since armorers aren't gunsmiths or factory techs. I can't emphasize his caution to go slow and not remove too much metal. Anyway, it certainly corrected sticky extraction and failures-to-extract in the occasional gun.
FWIW, when the engineers changed the chamber wall angle in the 5906TSW's, we were told it involved something like a 1 degree change, opening the chamber wall angle. It was reportedly marked by the barrel hoods having the larger 9mm stamping, versus the smaller, older alpha/numeric markings of 9mm Parabellum.
FWIW, back when I was a junior armorer, there finally came a point when the head armorer showed (trusted) me to learn how to use finishing reamers to carefully remove the occasional high spots in the chambers of an older S&W 3rd gen, as well as clean up the uneven barrel leade once in a while. This wasn't something taught in the armorer classes, since armorers aren't gunsmiths or factory techs. I can't emphasize his caution to go slow and not remove too much metal. Anyway, it certainly corrected sticky extraction and failures-to-extract in the occasional gun.
FWIW, when the engineers changed the chamber wall angle in the 5906TSW's, we were told it involved something like a 1 degree change, opening the chamber wall angle. It was reportedly marked by the barrel hoods having the larger 9mm stamping, versus the smaller, older alpha/numeric markings of 9mm Parabellum.
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whooper333
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Again I would like to say thanks for the help to all that posted on this thread. There is some excellent information and reference numbers that have been given here. Perhaps it will help someone out in the future.
As to if the problem will return as had been mentioned only time will tell. I can say I went from 2 to 3 fte per magazine to 2 per hundred rounds shot, which makes the fun needle go way green.
I know I am not the only one that has experienced this problem on a 945. There is a video on you boob where a guy named Justin opinion is firing his new to him 945 for the first time and what da ya know fte issues. I posted a remark on his video to see if he had any answers, but never heard back.
Anyway if someone has this issue and stumbles on this thread, it may be helpful. I would like to stress that taking a finishing chamber reamer to the barrel should be the last thing on the list. Anyone that reads this should understand that I tried everything else first and only after noticing the chamber ridge and then confirming that I could feel a bump when I slowly inserted a empty case into the chamber did I turn to the reamer.
In case there are 945 owners out there that have seen Jerry m. Video of his 945 cycling 5 empty cases and have tried the empty case trick with no joy, I am attaching a couple of photos of what worked for me. Blending and polishing on the frame inside adjacent to the barrel feed ramp turned my 945 into a party trick center piece. It should be stated when I did this the gun was pretty much a boat anchor unless I loaded 1 round per mag. Also I should note the gun only does 5 empty cases any more and the results may vary.
As to if the problem will return as had been mentioned only time will tell. I can say I went from 2 to 3 fte per magazine to 2 per hundred rounds shot, which makes the fun needle go way green.
I know I am not the only one that has experienced this problem on a 945. There is a video on you boob where a guy named Justin opinion is firing his new to him 945 for the first time and what da ya know fte issues. I posted a remark on his video to see if he had any answers, but never heard back.
Anyway if someone has this issue and stumbles on this thread, it may be helpful. I would like to stress that taking a finishing chamber reamer to the barrel should be the last thing on the list. Anyone that reads this should understand that I tried everything else first and only after noticing the chamber ridge and then confirming that I could feel a bump when I slowly inserted a empty case into the chamber did I turn to the reamer.
In case there are 945 owners out there that have seen Jerry m. Video of his 945 cycling 5 empty cases and have tried the empty case trick with no joy, I am attaching a couple of photos of what worked for me. Blending and polishing on the frame inside adjacent to the barrel feed ramp turned my 945 into a party trick center piece. It should be stated when I did this the gun was pretty much a boat anchor unless I loaded 1 round per mag. Also I should note the gun only does 5 empty cases any more and the results may vary.
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whooper333
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I wanted to post the final configuration on my s&w 945pc pistol.
The recoil spring that I am using is the midway USA #227209 apx 8" long with .0437" wire diameter. The extractor spring is the original that came with the gun. It is a 5 coil spring with a diameter of .191", length of .305", and wire of .033". Under the extractor spring I have a .020" shim. The pull weight at the extractor hook at first deflection is 8.0-8.1lbs. In this configuration the gun has had no malfunctions with a round count of a little over 100 rnds thru it. the 4 magazines I have all function well.
Shooting of this pistol will slow, now that the gun is working well. It will probably visit the range a couple times a year because it is one nice pistol and I don't want to shoot the heck out of it. Except for the defect that was left in the barrel chamber by s&w the rest of the pistol has exceptional fit and finish and now it seems I want to preserve that quality for years to come. It is funny, the pistol went from a good looking boat anchor to a safe queen compliments of a clymer chamber reamer and the contributions of the knowledgeable folks here at the s&w forum. Thanks again to all of you that contributed to this projects success.
The recoil spring that I am using is the midway USA #227209 apx 8" long with .0437" wire diameter. The extractor spring is the original that came with the gun. It is a 5 coil spring with a diameter of .191", length of .305", and wire of .033". Under the extractor spring I have a .020" shim. The pull weight at the extractor hook at first deflection is 8.0-8.1lbs. In this configuration the gun has had no malfunctions with a round count of a little over 100 rnds thru it. the 4 magazines I have all function well.
Shooting of this pistol will slow, now that the gun is working well. It will probably visit the range a couple times a year because it is one nice pistol and I don't want to shoot the heck out of it. Except for the defect that was left in the barrel chamber by s&w the rest of the pistol has exceptional fit and finish and now it seems I want to preserve that quality for years to come. It is funny, the pistol went from a good looking boat anchor to a safe queen compliments of a clymer chamber reamer and the contributions of the knowledgeable folks here at the s&w forum. Thanks again to all of you that contributed to this projects success.
