S&W auto's

[Denver Dick]

I have 20 S&W 3rd Gen Autos (okay, I cheated I included my 645 in there). And, trust me, I ain't lookin' to sell any of them. In fact, the only S&W 3rd Gen Auto that have I sold in the past 7 years was a 6906 to my brother because . . . well, he's my brother and he wanted it.

I bought the vast majority of my 3rd Gens between 2007 and 2009 when prices were much lower than now. I could make some good money selling a few of them, especially my three 10mm pistols. But, like I said, I ain't sellin'. In fact, if I see a S&W 3rd Gen Auto in the condition I like (99% or better) for a price that is not too much over fair, I'm very likely to be a buyer.

 

[EBSF1911]

I agree

I agree a lot of us here are operating on nostalgia. We are the ones that buy there upper end firearms and help keep the legend alive. I hope that the persuit of ever cheaper guns doesn't destroy any of our iconic firearms companies

 

[MattyD380]

I am quoting an old post, (from here,) that if S&W was to make a 645 today, (kinda an old post,) it would cost $1,200. I know that a 645 is a 2nd Gen, but I couldn't find anything cost wise today, what a 3rd Gen would be. I was feeling kinda bad about paying + $500.00 to replace a 645 I sold years ago. Composite frames are way cheaper to produce and the monetary return is better. Sad, but that's the way it is, and will be.

I would pay $1200 for a new 645. With some modern updates.

Seems like metal framed guns nowadays are a different business proposition than they were years ago. Agencies are going to keep buying M&Ps, Glocks, etc., so metal, hammer fired guns have become niche products, with premium price tags.

Sigs P2XXs sell for a grand.

Wilson Combat Berettas sell for a grand.

So why not a new line of premium guns based on Smith 3rd gen architecture?

Maybe you don't call them 5906s, 4506s, 645s, etc... but a new sub brand with premium features that the Gray Guns/Wilson Combat crowd is looking for: match grade barrels, melonite finish, g10 grips, super-duper sights, etc. Scandium frame?

I know I'd get my wallet out.

 

[TAROMAN]

Agree they're great guns.
If you have a dire need for a new one, this may be your last chance.
Cabela's have new 5946s on sale for $599.99.

In stock at my local store.
Same gun used by RCMP Mounties:

Sergeant Vickers used his 5946 to kill the terrorist who attacked Parliament

 

[Texas40]

Just bought this one NIB 03/96 mfg per SW cust serv email
Makes two now the other is a 4006. Im starting to get an attraction to the 3g line.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ohsheepdog]

I carried a 4006 for several years when I began my career and hated the thing. I carried a Glock 22 when I was part-time and was forced to carry the Smith when I went full-time. Compared of the Glock it was extremely heavy, not as accurate, and a pain in the butt to take apart and reassemble for a new cop. Unfortunately, that distaste for one gun carried over into other second and third Gens as well. That a friend of mine at the department, who was also my mentor and a Smith & Wesson armorer, turned me on to other guns like to 5906, 908, is 645. He recently started selling them off after he retired and now I a newfound interest in them. It's funny how we don't buy things when we could and they're cheaper, only to have a newfound interest in them when they're no longer made and as accessible! Sigh, such is life.

 

[Sevens]

Okay, I can see how you have evolved over time and perhaps you know this (I cannot gauge your level of familiarity here...) but you do realize that there exists -NO- handgun on planet Earth that is more similar to a 4006 in nearly every possible way as a 5906, right?

Almost literally the exact same handgun... in a different chambering.

 

[Ohsheepdog]

Yup, which is why I didn't care for either at the time. I like them all now, which was the point. First purchase in the list is a 3913/908 or similar.

 

[Sevens]

Okay, gotcha.

 

[growr]

So, help me understand this....Sig and CZ still make all steel, DA/SA handguns at a profitable price point and S&W cannot? What are they doing that S&W isn't willing to do?
There is certainly a demand for this type of sidearm....Sig, CZ and clones sell a LOT of them....S&W could as well. They could dominate this market again if they felt like it.....Wish they would feel like it again!
Randy

 

[Sevens]

It's not that S&W "cannot", it's that S&W has elected not to make them anymore. It isn't about what other gunmakers are doing, it is about what S&W has decided they wish to do.

It truly is no more complicated or mysterious than that.

Building the 3rd Gen takes some off-site suppliers and vendors, S&W doesn't carve every single piece from a chunk of metal. It also takes floor space for the tooling that has since been reappropriated for othet work. It takes a staff of employees trained on those particular pistols.

S&W has decided that those reasons and the costs associated with them don't add up to potential sales of new production older technology.

 

[MattyD380]

It's not that S&W "cannot", it's that S&W has elected not to make them anymore. It isn't about what other gunmakers are doing, it is about what S&W has decided they wish to do.

It truly is no more complicated or mysterious than that.

Building the 3rd Gen takes some off-site suppliers and vendors, S&W doesn't carve every single piece from a chunk of metal. It also takes floor space for the tooling that has since been reappropriated for othet work. It takes a staff of employees trained on those particular pistols.

S&W has decided that those reasons and the costs associated with them don't add up to potential sales of new production older technology.

Great points.

I think someone alluded to this before...

If Smith doesn't ever want to make them again... sell the rights and the equipment to someone who does. A small-scale operation that can fully devote the resources to building a niche product, for a discerning consumer who wants a top-notch DA/SA piece.

Ok. Back to reality now...

 

[rwsmith]

I will continue to search for them.....

I'm going to spend more time in pawn shops search for 'old metal guns' that nobody wants anymore.

 

[WR Moore]

Let me comment upon a couple of things brought up. First off, no manufacturing firm keeps machine lines dedicated to one product-unless they have to in order to meet demand. Product demand is forecast a year or more in advance and production for those various items scheduled.

So, the thought that there's machinery in Springfield-or anywhere else- gathering dust because someone isn't making that item anymore is a myth. Machinery currently making stuff that sells/has been ordered would have to be taken out of production, retooled and retooled again at the end of that limited run. Lost production costs money-which customers pay for in added costs for the various products. It's not just frames, it's all those itty bitty parts that fit inside the frames & slides too.

Now then, for an actual example: back in 2006 we needed to purchase sufficient third generation handguns (4006) to get everyone using the same firearm. We had 2/3 of our unit using the 1006, the rest using the 4006. I don't recall the exact price for the 4006, but we were able to re-equip everyone with M&P40s for less money than it would have cost for the 4006's. Even after another expansion of personnel.

Bad move? NO! The M&P is a better combat gun than either of the TDA guns. Sorry if you don't agree, but we're dealing in results, not pride of ownership. The carpenter may of may not have stylistic wants about their hammer. The important thing is how well it drives nails and ease of maintenance.

BTW: yes, I've got some third generation pieces, including my 1006. They stay locked up.

Almost forgot, several folks mentioned "cost". One gent noted several things that affect cost. Let me add to the list: Taxes, wages and benefits, maintenance, payments on loans for machinery & tooling, set asides for various exceptional expenses, capital expenditures, lost income (what the company could make if the money being spent was invested, today that's probably non-existent), advertising (the LGS doesn't buy those full page ads), dividends to stockholders, utilities ........the list goes on-forgot one! PROFIT (yes, it's a cost). Remember the factory gets maybe 30-35% of MSRP when they sell the items to the distributor.

 

[MWater]

If Smith doesn't ever want to make them again... sell the rights and the equipment to someone who does. A small-scale operation that can fully devote the resources to building a niche product, for a discerning consumer who wants a top-notch DA/SA piece.

I'm pretty sure that if someone really wanted to make a carbon copy of a third gen, nobody is going to stop them. Daewoo did a good enough job on their derivative.

I'm always hoping a Turkish company like MKEK will do it, but I doubt it. Not a lot of overlap between the crowd that pines for third gens and the crowd willing to buy guns from Turkey, I think.

Always good to remind people that you *can* run out and buy a brand new alternate-reality third gen from Lionheart. Have to settle for aluminum frame, though.

 

[Big Shrek]

I'm often reminded of exactly how long plastic lasts...
as I just gave my kids the toys I played with 40 years ago...
granted, it was a different formula back then, but
plastic does degrade with time, heat, and weather conditions.
Some of it has lasted quite well, but most is brittle and easily broken.
Nothing you can do will stop the degradation like you can with a steel gun.

Steel, if kept clean and oiled, will last a whole lot longer
than any plastic ever will. I've got perfectly functional
pistols and rifles from the 1920's & 1930's.
Also have a few Bakelite-type plastic items from that same
period...which are all brittle as heck & you have to treat
them more carefully than fine china.

Remember Tupperware from the 70's??
Try using some of it now.

For that matter, try finding a Gen 1 Glock that
still works and is showing no signs of degradation.

I'll take my All Steel guns, thank you very much

 

[Texas40]

The polymer used in pistol frames and the plastics to make toys are no where near the same materials.

I seem to be developing a liking for the line myself have two now 4006 and 4516-2
I see them 3rdGens) alot at shows always check um out
looking for gems like the 4516 it was nib at a small lgs locally.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BAM-BAM]

The "Performance Center" as it was originally, located in an airplane hanger behind the main factory, staffed with talented gunsmiths making semi custom versions of standard production guns, no longer exists.

The 3rd gen guns wont be coming back. That much is clear. And I would surmise that were a "classic" 3rd gen pistol to be produced, it would probably pale in comparison to the original. Much like the so called "classic revolver" line.

The good news is that LNIB examples of the 3rd gen pistols are still readily available on the auction boards. While prices are steadily increasing, they can still be found for not too much money. Especially considering what you are getting.

So find which models you want to aquire and get them while the inventory is not limited and the price is not limiting. Great pistols! Regards 18DAI

Nuff said......................................

 

[CBus660R]

Now then, for an actual example: back in 2006 we needed to purchase sufficient third generation handguns (4006) to get everyone using the same firearm. We had 2/3 of our unit using the 1006, the rest using the 4006. I don't recall the exact price for the 4006, but we were able to re-equip everyone with M&P40s for less money than it would have cost for the 4006's. Even after another expansion of personnel.

Bad move? NO! The M&P is a better combat gun than either of the TDA guns. Sorry if you don't agree, but we're dealing in results, not pride of ownership. The carpenter may of may not have stylistic wants about their hammer. The important thing is how well it drives nails and ease of maintenance.

I'm not a fan of plastic striker fired guns, but I'll say this, the Springfield XD40 is own certainly works and feels good in my hand. As a tool, it's top notch, just not much to look at when compared to my metal guns, be they my 1911s or Smith 2nd and 3rd gens I own. And that's what it comes down to for us folks who are posting here. The all metal traditional DA/SA guns just "look right". Certainly people will bring up other reasons for liking a traditional pistol, but they're secondary IMHO.

 

[VTHokiesDuckHunter]

Price is not the real issue. Manufacturing space and workers may be part of the problem at S&W for the issue of not making 3rd gens anymore.

Certainly since SIG (P220, P239, others); Beretta, CZ and others make TDA metal guns at competitive prices shows it can be done.

Not to mention S&W, Ruger and others making nice 1911's at competitive prices. And Browning still making Hi-Powers.

S&W simply doubled down to try to retake the LEO and general public market back from Glock. And they've dedicated their focus, R&D and manufacturing capabilities to that end for any pistols that are not 1911's, .22's or revolvers.

For that matter - look at the .22 market. Ruger's new Mark IV's are awesome metal guns as are the Buck Marks. From $400-$600.

It could definitely be done. I just don't think S&W is going there.

Colt is back with their new .357 revolver though. Kimber is making revolvers (unfortunately - not with exposed hammers). Who knows, maybe it could happen!

I'd love to see S&W open a small plant in SC and introduce some new alloy, scandium and stainless 4th gens.

A 4th gen Scandium framed 3913 at $1200 and I'd buy 3 of them!