S&W CS c’mon...

[Invictus357]

Do what I did.

If you have a problem with a gun, WAIT until it's fixed to your satisfaction.

Then you can tell us all about and we can enjoy the story,

I've lost count on how many people have created an ID to bitch about a gun problem and then never tell us what happened.

I hope your gun gets fixed soon.

It's been a tough time for everyone during this pandemic.

I bought something for one my guns and got an email from the company shortly after.

They said sorry but it could be months before they ship it because of the pandemic.

I said I understand and I don't care - take a year if you have to. Just stay safe.

 

[LCC]

The Smith and Wesson plant in Springfield had a worker test positive for Covid in March so they had to shut down operations and thoroughly disinfect the entire plant, which put them behind.
Than in June another worker tested positive for Covid so they had to do it all over again.
If you can afford a 1K new gun during a time when folks are lining up at food banks to feed their family, why not afford some patience and empathy for a reputable business doing their best during this deadly pandemic?

 

[bamabiker]

Open the cylinder and hold back the cylinder release with your left hand and pull the trigger with your right and see if the stop sticks in the frame.
I have a M686 that had a bur on the side of the stop and it would hang on the frame sometimes. Took it out and gently filed the bur and works fine now.
I know it should work great right out of the box but that's just not 100% all the time.

 

[tlawler]

If you have a job, aren't sick, haven't lost a loved one, and your biggest problem is getting a gun fixed, count yourself lucky.

Amen to that, brother!

 

[Dan Christopher]

I just find this whole thing aggravating. If S&W revolvers were two to three hundred dollars cheaper on average, I could make allowances for junk going out the door. But now, you'll pay between 800 and 1000 dollars for a standard production S&W. At that price point, there's zero excuse for any gun leaving the factory that hasn't been thoroughly inspected for barrel alignment, bc gap, timing, etc.

 

[DHernandez]

I just find this whole thing aggravating. If S&W revolvers were two to three hundred dollars cheaper on average, I could make allowances for junk going out the door. But now, you'll pay between 800 and 1000 dollars for a standard production S&W. At that price point, there's zero excuse for any gun leaving the factory that hasn't been thoroughly inspected for barrel alignment, bc gap, timing, etc.

Thank you. That’s my whole point. I’m not anti-Smith or a blind fanboy to any brand. I use what works for its intended purpose. I appreciate those who offered info on the problem.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I'd be pissed too.
One thing you probably don't know is that around thid time of year S$W closes down the factory for a few weeks for vacation-refurbishing, or whatever. Most seasoned "pros" know to work around this annual closure. Probably why the wait for you is so long. Not trying to excuse anything but just giving you a heads up.
Lots of people like the 69's and for good reason. Me-44's belong in an N frame. Or a Ruger

 

[AveragEd]

As many others have posted, this damned virus has American businesses in upheaval. I work for the company that owns all the Kenworth truck dealerships in Pennsylvania and we are essential for parts and service, not sales. We ship over two million dollars worth of truck parts just about every month but getting them is touch and go because factories are limping along with skeleton crews.

As an example, remanufactured Cummins fuel injectors are about impossible to find in the states but are available from a firm in Belgium. Go figure.

Traditionally, Smith & Wesson's service has been good. I have a PC1911, the one with the slotted slide and Briley barrel bushing. I felt the bushing was too tight as it was hard to remove and reinstall although there is a video on S&W's website showing a gunsmith popping it in and out like a standard item. I returned the gun and the gunsmith working on it actually called me to discuss what he recommended doing. This of course was pre-COVID19.

Then there's Kimber. I bought a Kimber Rimfire Target Conversion Kit for my Kimber Stainless Gold Match 1911 and it failed to function in one way or another more often than not, even using their suggested ammunition, CCI MiniMags. The kit came back in about three weeks with a warranty invoice stating, "Replaced small parts."

It worked no better so I called again and suggested I send it back on my SGM frame in case the gun itself had something to do with the cause and I requested an itemized repair invoice. They said they replaced the gun's mainspring housing and as I expected, the condition was unchanged.

Finally, I requested an exchange, to which they agreed. I placed a mark in a hidden area and in fact did receive another entire kit. I then went to my club's 25-yard range and shot 100 rounds of CCI MiniMag ammo through it; well, tried to. It failed to feed, failed to fire, failed to extract or failed to eject 74 times - a 74% failure rate!

I was able to return the Kimber kit to MidwayUSA for store credit when I told them this long sorted story and provided supporting documentation. I then purchased an Advantage Arms Rimfire Target Conversion Kit and it has performed 100% flawlessly on two different frames. That Advantage Arms kit is a clone of the more costly Marvel kit, in case anyone wonders about its origins.

A few months after all this, two fellow club members were shooting their 1911s with new Kimber Rimfire Conversion Kits. Their experiences mirrored mine.

I used to own three Kimber 1911s, two in .45ACP and one in .38 Super. I now own four S&W 1911s, three in .45ACP and one in .38 Super. Any product is only as good as the support behind it and I have found Smith & Wesson's service to be very satisfactory and I'm even going back to the 1970s.

Ed

 

[1&done]

I just find this whole thing aggravating. If S&W revolvers were two to three hundred dollars cheaper on average, I could make allowances for junk going out the door. But now, you'll pay between 800 and 1000 dollars for a standard production S&W. At that price point, there's zero excuse for any gun leaving the factory that hasn't been thoroughly inspected for barrel alignment, bc gap, timing, etc.

If you look at my recent postings you see that I am not unbiased about their poor customer service, so consider my posting in that light -- but I do worry that this is the kind of corporate greed that ultimately kills companies. I have seen this kind of nonsense in my own corporate life having previously worked for a company of 175000 employees that slowly killed itself.

First management steps in and tries to cut factory costs by retiring expensive workers and shifting to 'more efficient' (read: CHEAPER) production methods. If the new process ends up making a degraded product then in the short term you just shift the burden over to product rework, QC and field service. Once you go through several years of squeezing the factory for efficiency then those same bean counters will turn their focus to another group that costs too much money and start to work on "efficiencies" there. Maybe they will take away the free coffee in the break room, or maybe they will swing for the fences and invent an initiative like: Let's target a 25% reduction in the cost of customer support. Yes, we spend way too much money every year on customer support, we need to do more with less. C'mon Dan, aren't you a team player?? We can improve our bottom line number by 8% over two years with zero top line growth!!

You will note that senior management never falls under the focus of being driven for cost cutting and efficiency. They will find reasons to give themselves larger and larger bonuses because only they could be so smart as to think this **** up.

Eventually you destroy a brand...

 

[SLT223]

That’s a big reason why so many of us seek out the real classic S&W revolvers of a bygone era. Most of mine are P&R and at least pre-MIM.

This guy has a slightly different opinion

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4h9l2ipiKf4[/ame]

 

[Dougaz]

I'd like to know how many pistols (revolvers and auto's) S&W ships per year and what the failure/return/complaint ratio is relative to the total number of guns shipped.

By example, if S&W shipped 500,000 pieces per year and the failure/return/complaint number was 1,000 guns, then the failure ratio is only .002%

Now before your head explodes, I have no idea what the total number of gun sales are (in units, not dollars) nor do I know how many complaints apply to those sales numbers but when I look at re-call issues at other industries, auto's specifically, I wonder how bad this really is.

From a time standpoint, I get it .... We all want to send back a problem item and have it fixed or replaced in days, not weeks but few industries if any, are unaffected by current social/economic conditions.

 

[tlawler]

This guy has a slightly different opinion

The new S&W Model 19 Classic ~ A S&W Armorer's Review - YouTube

And everyone’s entitled to one.

 

[colt_saa]

I'd like to know how many pistols (revolvers and auto's) S&W ships per year and what the failure/return/complaint ratio is relative to the total number of guns shipped.

By example, if S&W shipped 500,000 pieces per year and the failure/return/complaint number was 1,000 guns, then the failure ratio is only .002%

Now before your head explodes, I have no idea what the total number of gun sales are (in units, not dollars) nor do I know how many complaints apply to those sales numbers but when I look at re-call issues at other industries, auto's specifically, I wonder how bad this really is.

From a time standpoint, I get it .... We all want to send back a problem item and have it fixed or replaced in days, not weeks but few industries if any, are unaffected by current social/economic conditions.

All manufacturers report production to the ATFE, they then compile a report. The most current report is always 2 years behind.

Over the last 4 or 5 reports Smith & Wesson averaged roughly one million firearms per year.

It makes no difference if it is a pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, it gets test fired before shipping.

That averages over three thousand eight hundred firearms per day.

Price of the gun does not matter, they all get the same routine before shipping out.

How much time do you feel they should spend on each firearm?

 

[Dan Christopher]

This guy has a slightly different opinion

The new S&W Model 19 Classic ~ A S&W Armorer's Review - YouTube

I have a great deal of respect for him. He does make some good points. With the technology they use today, guns turn out better and more consistent. That said, my point still remains. For what they sell for, there still needs to be a final QC auditor who personally handles and inspects every revolver before it leaves S&W. No revolver should ever leave the factory with timing, alignment or gap issues. There's just no excuse for that.

 

[ladder13]

.................

This isn't a cheer leading squad where every whiny post gets a like.

So often it does.

 

[ladder13]

..............

Some businesses are closed forever. Which means that an owner has lost his investment and his employees have lost their jobs and will have to find new livelihoods. ..........

If you have a job, aren't sick, haven't lost a loved one, and your biggest problem is getting a gun fixed, count yourself lucky.

Having to return a gun is hardly a hardship in my world.

 

[H Richard]

Maybe I have just been lucky, but I have been collecting and using S&W (primarily revolvers), and a few other brands, for over 35 years, and there has only been 2 occasions in all that time where I had to send a gun back to the factory. S&W 686 no dash for the recall, and a Ruger LCP that had also been recalled. I have had and used probably 100 S&W revolvers, mostly pre lock, and no revolver has ever had to be returned.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

We have carefully taught manufacturers that we will not pay for the highest quality. The second something visibly comparable comes out cheaper, most consumers flock to it. A few old, traditional guys on a website are not going to change the industry. We have taught manufactures that it is better to let a relatively few faulty products through and fix them after the fact than to charge for "perfect" quality of yore. And the people trained to make those higher quality products have retired. I am sorry for anyone who has a bad experience with a new S&W. They will happen. Unlike your car and appliances, S&W will almost always eventually make it right. Better to let them take their time and fix right than have you send it back again. Times have changed.

 

[ladder13]

$50,000 and up cars are routinely returned for NHTSA issues, some serious, along with improper body panel fit, poor paint jobs(notice the new orange peel paint?), alignment issues, and on and on.

One always needs to count their blessings.

 

[DHernandez]

Got the pistol back, works the way it should now. They replaced the cylinder stop, replaced the stop spring and repaired the yoke.