629 locking up with mag loads

[drumsetdrummer]

Two Starline brass (my reloads) are below. I was shooting both my 629 and my Marlin 1894, so I assume one gun leaves a bigger dimple:

Here is the PPU factory. Same one gun leaves a bigger dimple:

 

[drumsetdrummer]

I think your primers are backing out. It probably has more to do with the brass than high pressure. Sometimes the primer pockets are weak and don't hold the primer as tightly. It backs out and jams up the works. When you muscle the cylinder open, they get pushed back into the pocket so you don't really notice it. 24.5 of 296 is at the top of the loading data but the high end of that data is guided by the amount of powder that fits in the case with that particular bullet more than it is high pressure. You really can't get enough 296 into the case to spike the pressure into the danger zone. I run 25 grains of 296 with that bullet and it is superbly accurate out of my 6 1/2" Classic. So long as your gun doesn't have excessive end play, that is the cylinder doesn't move back and forth a lot when the gun is closed, I wouldn't send it back. Try changing brass and/or primers. You should be able to run that load without problems but you have to remember that it is a hot load and it requires a little bit more attention when loading. Be careful if you decide to back off the load and do not go below the minimum. As counter intuitive as it seems, that powder is more apt to give you a pressure problem with an under load than it is with an overload.

I did buy a bag of Hornady brass so I can try that. This was only the 3rd firing of the Starline so I would be shocked if the primer pockets are worn out already, but who knows.

I will also start separating out the brass fired in the 629 vs. the Marlin and by which load, so I can view them better once I get home.

Finally, I'll load up the Hornady brass this week without changing anything else, shoot it this weekend and then report back.

 

[WR Moore]

Looking at the pix of your fired rounds, the first pair, left hand example isn't what I'd call a "normal" fired primer. There's not a hint of rounded edge to the primer.

Also, I used the .44 as a deer harvesting device for quite awhile. I discovered early that my handloads (Remington 240 gr SJHP) at about 1250 f/s shot groups half the size of full power factory. The deer didn't notice the difference and they were all one shot kills.

 

[drumsetdrummer]

Looking at the pix of your fired rounds, the first pair, left hand example isn't what I'd call a "normal" fired primer. There's not a hint of rounded edge to the primer.

You're right. I went downstairs to look at all my spent reloads and all 12 of the small dimples have more squared off edges and all 12 of the larger firing pin dimples are more rounded. Same with the PPU despite the picture.

I am going to have to pay attention next time to which gun is making the larger dimple.

That said, I've only ever seen flattened primers from anything I have ever shot in my 629 whether loaded to 44 Special specs or full house mag, with Remington, CCI, Federal or Winchester primers. I just assumed that was normal for 44 mag in this gun.

 

[Robduke]

Had that problem with a classic hunter I purchased new back in the 80's. Had nothing to do with the load. Sent it back to them and they made some internal adjustments. Too many years ago to Renner the specifics so do your self a favor and send it back.

 

[chief38]

For range and target work - I always load to the lower end of the recommended reloading manuals scale. No reason to wear a gun faster. No reason to waste costly powder on a paper target and IMO lower velocity loads usually make for better accuracy - that has been my long term experience with target shooting loads! A triple win IMHO! BTW, they are still legit loads (not powder puff) but towards the lower end of what they recommend.

Once a year I might get the urge to shoot hot magnum loads and I will fire a box of 158 grain magnums through an L or N Frame. Usually factory loaded ammo because I have them. Occasionally I will load up some magnums on my Dillon Press but rarely because I just don't shoot them that often and usually forget to do it. When I reload, I will normally load up well over 5,000 rounds per caliber I shoot on a regular basis. Because I don't care much for reloading, I get it out of the way all in a few days, put the cover back on the press and relax for a while. Works for me.

 

[drumsetdrummer]

For range and target work - I always load to the lower end of the recommended reloading manuals scale. No reason to wear a gun faster. No reason to waste costly powder on a paper target and IMO lower velocity loads usually make for better accuracy - that has been my long term experience with target shooting loads! A triple win IMHO! BTW, they are still legit loads (not powder puff) but towards the lower end of what they recommend.

I have mostly been shooting powder puff loads in it. The owner's manual recommended starting off with lighter loads, so that's it what I did. 8 to 9 grains of Unique with a 240 grain Barry's plated. It is way better to practice with light loads and not develop a flinch.

That said, as I began developing hunting loads, I was pleasantly surprised how manageable the hot loads are in this gun even when it locks up. I tend to be recoil sensitive with shoulder fired guns, but there is something about the gun recoiling up & back that cushions the energy and makes it rather fun to shoot hot loads with.

 

[drumsetdrummer]

Update

Okay, I think I have this figured out. I did not have time for reloads this week. However, I was half suspecting the lock to be the culprit so I took the flag out and took it to the range with the hot PPU loads to see what would happen.

I ran 3 cylinders through it with no issues. But the first round on the fourth cylinder locked up hard again. Couldn't move the hammer, trigger or cylinder release. After finagling the hammer a bit I got it and the trigger loose, but it wouldn't fire and the cylinder release still would not open to save my life. So I cocked the hammer back and carefully put it back down a few times until the spent round was under the hammer and took it home.

Then I prayed hard and took it apart. After getting the grip off, I took the hammer spring out then the hammer. Once the hammer was out the cylinder release worked again and I was able to dump the rounds. I noticed the rear thingy behind the firing pin was sticking way out and was stuck. It must have prevented the hammer from going all the way down, preventing the cylinder release from opening. This probably explains why everything else was locking up.

I have enough info now that I am planning to call Smith on Monday to get an RMA to send it back. The firing pin mechanism should not be doing this. (While I had it open I put the lock flag back in.)

 

[Nightowl]

Is your Hornady brass shorter than the Starline? A lot of Hornady brass is shorter than standard to accommodate their bullets.

 

[drumsetdrummer]

Is your Hornady brass shorter than the Starline? A lot of Hornady brass is shorter than standard to accommodate their bullets.

No. I bought a lot of 100 from Midsouth and trimmed it all to 1.275 to make the crimps consistent. I haven't even shot it yet.

Only their factory LEVERevolution ammo brass is shorter to accommodate those FTX bullets. (Unless you trim your brass down to load those bullets... something I am not going to do.)

 

[drumsetdrummer]

Latest (final?) update:
Instead of shipping it off to S&W (long story), I took it to a well-respected local gunsmith. He discovered the firing pin retainer pin was completely missing and the firing pin spring was bent and snipped. This was a new gun. Not sure how the retainer pin could be missing. Granted, I have had the side plate off a few times for oiling/cleaning, and replaced the main spring and trigger return spring to lighten the pull weight, but I have never messed with the firing pin area. Who knows, maybe it fell out while I had it open?

Anyway, he replaced the spring and retainer pin and I hope to get to the range this weekend. I'll verify with use, but have to assume for now the problem is resolved.

 

[Protocall_Design]

The firing pin retainer pin will pop out and get lost sometimes if dryfiring with the sideplate off. I wonder if maybe it got loose and was floating around in the action?

 

[drumsetdrummer]

The firing pin retainer pin will pop out and get lost sometimes if dryfiring with the sideplate off. I wonder if maybe it got loose and was floating around in the action?

No idea. This one is likely on me since I did dry fire it in the past without the sideplate as a reassembly test, not knowing it would be an issue. I know now.