If a forgery is so perfect that it is indistinguishable from authentic, does it become authentic?
If you make a really good 100 dollar bill, is it still counterfeiting?
S&W End Labels-Are Any of these Phony??
- Thread starter haris1
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If you make a really good 100 dollar bill, is it still counterfeiting?
Not "really good", but perfect. Identical.
I pose this question as a bit of a lark, obviously, because of course fake is fake no matter the quality, but there is an interesting discussion to be had on the subject -- one that's been fought over many times in other mediums, like, say, the art world, where forgery is a much bigger business.
There are a lot of men, and some women, in Federal Prisons asking the guards that same question.
And many more who aren't, I'm sure. The question was ontological rather than legal.
MikeChandler
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Since you are not the original owner, you're guessing too. The font kerning looks wrong to me, but maybe it's just the picture. Also I am suspicious of the bottom right corner, the order the marks were made, and the level of detail on the label.
But more to the point - any label is suspect now that we have laser printers, and the information on aging labels is online. A determined forger could fake anything; I know that I could, and I am not a criminal, and not particularly intelligent or gifted in that area. But I do know a bit about fonts/layout/kerning... enough to fake a label if I so desired.
Factory boxes are overvalued.
MikeChandler
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But guns indeed have been forged - look at the number of colt police frames (troopers) that were mated with python barrels, the frame front welded up, sanded, then refinished, to pass off as a colt python, aka as "Colt Pooper". The only way to tell is the discoloration over time of the welded up area through the blueing. Many a Python owner has one of these guns - some bought in the late sixties and early seventies from gun shops, with full paperwork, receipts, etc. - so they are completely unawares.
With some S&W models being rarer than others, and the ability to make very detailed forgery box labels, I believe there are forged S&W's out there too; where ever there is money to be made there will be crime.
The "comes with box, tools, papers" line mean nothing unless I know the original owner. Any of that can be bought in the classifieds, and is.
Travispitt
Member
It's funny you posted this because when this revolver was for sale I was thinking it was fake. I even did some searching on fake labels after seeing it. It just looked too white and in the same handwriting
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
MrTrolleyguy
US Veteran
Have any Forum members been "unmasked" as cheats?
If so, how did that go down?
If so, how did that go down?
I think both of these boxs are alright.
The bottom box has what appears to be dealer codes or inventory markings.
OP
haris1
Member
More boxes with "questionable" end labels
Guys, I just posted 4 more from out of my collection with
my comments on what i see that stands out to me. One label is way off when it comes to where Smith and Wesson is printed at the bottom and one has a logo opn the label and none of my boxes have logos. Take a look at the top post and share your thoughts
Guys, I just posted 4 more from out of my collection with
my comments on what i see that stands out to me. One label is way off when it comes to where Smith and Wesson is printed at the bottom and one has a logo opn the label and none of my boxes have logos. Take a look at the top post and share your thoughts
OP
haris1
Member
No one has been unmasked and you know what? If I had a boxed gun and didnt realize the label was wrong, I wouldnt be a cheat if I sold it. Only if i knew. Everyone gets the benefit of my doubt
until they prove otherwise
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lamarw
Member
The problem with the Model 19-3 Revolver box is the pen used where the packer annotates the label appears to be the pen used by the inspector and not the packer. The inspector marks only in one space on the label. The packer marks the other spaces on the label that are applicable.
jjbrewst1
Member
Makes me want to throw my hands up in the air... Frustrating, now I need to go check all my boxes.
Just out of curiosity, what are boxes like that worth? I've got one for a Model 19 with the 1955 printing inside and three without the printing for a 36, a 36-1, and a 10-5. The Model 19 box is printed for a Model 19 on the opposite end of the label, and it's just a box, no paper work. The other three have varying levels of manuals and paper work, including one with the cleaning rod.
Kernel Crittenden
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
The old two piece boxes for plain Jane Smiths will sell on eBay usually in the $30 to $60 range. Sometimes higher. Sometimes MUCH higher.
Any thoughts on what moves the price, outside of condition?
What moves the price? We do. The S&W collectors that buy cardboard boxes. They are great for display, but not storage or transport.
Best, Mike 2796
Best, Mike 2796
jjbrewst1
Member
THREAD DRIFT??
The man I know who buys the fake Python boxes does not sell his guns. He is building a collection with regular additions. He said he has no intentions of selling them, but he sure does brag about the quality of his fake boxes. And they are nice. I do not know where the boxes come from. I do know for certain my acquaintance is not selling guns at all.
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