Compass Will
Member
I found this on line about the AAI. QSPR Silent Revolver ~ Just Share for Guns Specifications
S&W In VietNam ?
- Thread starter marine1970
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kwill1911
Member
That article is more accurate than many but gets the caliber wrong. The final cartridge was 0.523 inches in diameter and 1.87 inches long. The charge holes almost no metal between each other.
I was wondering if anyone has done the math to come up with muzzle energy on the round. I might be able to tolerate more noise knowing I killed the VC I was aiming at. Most all of us came home with some level of hearing loss any way. I know I did.
BTW, I carried Revolver, Cal. .38 in the cockpit.
BTW, I carried Revolver, Cal. .38 in the cockpit.
kwill1911
Member
730 FPS. It made about the same noise as .22LR according to the final evaluation report.
133.3 ft.-lbs. or E=M x Vel squared.
Shot placement would be critical, like in the face.
Shot placement would be critical, like in the face.
gfors
Member
My dad, second from the left, is wearing what is likely (I think) a 4" Model 15-2 on his hip. This is the morning after he earned his Silver Star, combatting fires, on the flight line, during a mortar attack at Bien Hoa. I believe the year was 1964.
cobblefield
Member
What a wonderful story it is that you just shared. Two men on opposite sides in two horrible conflicts became and stayed friends. Wars are started by old men and fought by young men who often would rather not be fighting at all.
Is that an Easy Rider Poster in the first photo behind your hooch mate Hal Birk?
Some of you may remember my post from a while back. Seems pertinent to this thread.
Bought a 66 and Got Extras
Bought a 66 and Got Extras
Yes it is. Many of my pictures taken inside our hooch can't be posted here due to the proliferation of Playboy fold-outs on the wall.
My dad, second from the left, is wearing what is likely (I think) a 4" Model 15-2 on his hip. This is the morning after he earned his Silver Star, combatting fires, on the flight line, during a mortar attack at Bien Hoa. I believe the year was 1964.
I was looking at the broken windows on those trailers. Something must have landed close to your dad's quarters.
gfors
Member
Correction to original story
From what I've read, there were "illicit" B-57's, armed and staged, waiting for the next day's mission. Apparently, the presence of the bombers is what brought on the nighttime mortar attack.
ETA: My mom set the record straight. Dad was not asleep, when the attack occured. He was sitting in the readiness trailor, writing her a letter. He leaned back in his chair, just in time to avoid the pane of glass that shattered, with the first boom. He taxiied one of the A1-E's off of the flight line, then returned to fight fires on the B-57's.
He said the explosions next to his trailer is what woke him up.I was looking at the broken windows on those trailers. Something must have landed close to your dad's quarters.
From what I've read, there were "illicit" B-57's, armed and staged, waiting for the next day's mission. Apparently, the presence of the bombers is what brought on the nighttime mortar attack.
ETA: My mom set the record straight. Dad was not asleep, when the attack occured. He was sitting in the readiness trailor, writing her a letter. He leaned back in his chair, just in time to avoid the pane of glass that shattered, with the first boom. He taxiied one of the A1-E's off of the flight line, then returned to fight fires on the B-57's.
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yea, the BUFFs were suppose to come out of Guam, but what ever. Saw a U-2 land and take off a Bien Hoa in 1970.
Opps. You said B-57s.
RM Vivas
US Veteran
I've gone through as much paperwork as I was able to find on the TW/QSPR back in the 1990's, including most of the files from the Limited Warfare Laboratory.
Penetration was actually a concern voiced by a number of people in the field when they first saw the revolver; the folks doing the demonstrations would then shoot though sheets of plywood to demonstrate penetration. I suppose up close and personal, that would be sufficient.
As to the projectile, the term I saw used most commonly was "Mallory balls". It was my understanding that these were a particularly hard spherical ball and should not be confused with simple lead buckshot sort of projectiles. I don't know if I still still have the files, I need to check. I seem to remember tungsten being mentioned and the projectiles may have been made from or had a high tungsten content.
When I was researching this back in the 1990's I was at an SWCA Symposium and, being new to the historical firearms research game, was trying to impress and old time collector/researcher/author with my newfound TW/QPR knowledge. I was describing the ammunition to him and he reached into his pocket and pulled out a fired round!!
Best,
RM Vivas
people do not confuse b-52s with b-57s,very different aircraft. i have a few pics of the b-57's looking like a junk yard when move out to the bush a bit. we had two u2's at bien hoa in 64 when i was there,also i think our .38 spec. was fmj. we got to carry what we wanted to,so all kinds of stuff showed from the field, we got our choice as flight crew.
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kwill1911
Member
Yup. They were tested with a standard 6 layer winter uniform over ballistic gel.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
Since this thread started I actually have acquired something pertinent to add.
I found this US marked Model 10 at Cabelas a couple of years ago. I lettered it and shoot it often.
Just today I found a box of 1967 GI .38 ammo to go with it.
I don't know if it went to Vietnam, but the timing is right.
Now I just need a GI shoulder holster and helicopter to complete the set.
I found this US marked Model 10 at Cabelas a couple of years ago. I lettered it and shoot it often.
Just today I found a box of 1967 GI .38 ammo to go with it.
I don't know if it went to Vietnam, but the timing is right.
Now I just need a GI shoulder holster and helicopter to complete the set.
Attachments
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i have a picture of the Bien Hoa flight line I took on an over flight in My UH-1D. I'll find it and scan it in. The whole landing and take off procedure of the U-2 was pretty complicated. The tight spiral down approach was spectacular.
BTW, I always had my 38 loaded, hanging in it's holster on my bunk when not out and about. Not that it would do me much good during a ground attack. Wore it on me during the few times I got in town. No match for the punk cowboys armed with AKs in the dark alleys. Don't ask what I was doing there.
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Bien Hoa, 1970. The few Hercs parked on the ramp with what looks like an old Otter or a Beaver parked by itself. All the fast movers are under the shelter/bunkers. Looks pretty mundane from here, and nothing to do with S&W except that the aircrews were armed with them.
The 145th Combat Avn. Bn., the unit I was in at the time, is far off camera to the upper left. 5th SF HQ was located near by. That was a fun bunch. I know because I was invited to a few of their parties.
The 145th Combat Avn. Bn., the unit I was in at the time, is far off camera to the upper left. 5th SF HQ was located near by. That was a fun bunch. I know because I was invited to a few of their parties.
Attachments
My dad, second from the left, is wearing what is likely (I think) a 4" Model 15-2 on his hip. This is the morning after he earned his Silver Star, combatting fires, on the flight line, during a mortar attack at Bien Hoa. I believe the year was 1964.
I got to Bien Hoa on 10/31/64. After checking in I sacked out and was awakened by many booms. The loud speaker came to life and we were informed we were under attack.
I went to Air Police headquarters for assignment and was put in charge of 20 USAF personnel along a perimeter fence. It was a long night, but we had no issues thankfully.
I did have one Sgt. who was given an AR15, and he asked me how to load it, as he never saw one before. I told him to just sit tight and if necessary I would teach him how to load it, if and when the time came to use it.
Another Airman was given an M2 carbine and he too did not know how to operate it.
gfors
Member
I got to Bien Hoa on 10/31/64. After checking in I sacked out and was awakened by many booms. The loud speaker came to life and we were informed we were under attack.
I went to Air Police headquarters for assignment and was put in charge of 20 USAF personnel along a perimeter fence. It was a long night, but we had no issues thankfully.
I did have one Sgt. who was given an AR15, and he asked me how to load it, as he never saw one before. I told him to just sit tight and if necessary I would teach him how to load it, if and when the time came to use it.
Another Airman was given an M2 carbine and he too did not know how to operate it.
Dad qualified "Small Arms Expert" I think it was called, using the Smith & Wesson revolver, and an original M-16. He didn't remember model number, for the S&W.
Before deploying, he had my grandpa, who owned a sporting goods/hardware store, order a BHP. He wanted more capacity and thump, than 6 shots of 130 grain FMJ. The Browning was stolen, from the Q, at Clark. He ended up carrying, and never using the Smith and Wesson nor the Colt.
Internet sleuthing suggests that the events of 2am 11/1/64 may have been an inside job, in that the perimeter had been breached, before the attack, which was launched from inside the base.
Crazy war! Terrifying night!!! My deepest respect to all that served.
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My dad carried a Smith model 36 personal weapon in his pocket thru in both 67 and then 69. His first tour was in 65 and he carried the 1911 he had used in WW2 and Korea. When I graduated the police academy in 1980 he gave it to me for an off duty weapon. I used it as such till I retired in 2012. Still carry is some today
jkingrph
Member
I had an uncle who was a CMS in the USAF, aircraft maintenance and recovery who carried a short barrel S&W with him during his tour, 1965 I think. As I remember it was his personal weapon and he brought it back with him. I was in my second year of college at the time,
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The GI pistol belt allowed us to rotate the holster between our legs in the cockpit. Not much protection. It was mostly phycological.
Pen gun flares would be fastened to the flack jacket.Member of McCulloch's Raiders armed possibly with a S&W Model 29 .44 Magnum
Shared album - Chris - Google Photos
Shared album - Chris - Google Photos
So here is a perhaps odd question for those knowledgeable
The standard catalog mentions large numbers of model 10's procured during the Vietnam era, and mentions both square and round butt guns. From the research I have done and pictures I have seen, it appears the round butt was far more common ( every US marked 10 I have seen pictures of is a round butt).
I find it odd the round butt being apparently more prevalent, since the square butt was far more common in civilian and law enforcement use.
Was there some reason the military wanted round butts?
Does any one have more info on the numbers procured and a round vs square breakdown?
The standard catalog mentions large numbers of model 10's procured during the Vietnam era, and mentions both square and round butt guns. From the research I have done and pictures I have seen, it appears the round butt was far more common ( every US marked 10 I have seen pictures of is a round butt).
I find it odd the round butt being apparently more prevalent, since the square butt was far more common in civilian and law enforcement use.
Was there some reason the military wanted round butts?
Does any one have more info on the numbers procured and a round vs square breakdown?
kwill1911
Member
I've owned several of the round butt Model 10s but I don't think I've ever seen a U.S. marked square butt Model 10.
This is pure conjecture on my part but I know hundreds of the round butt guns were given to ARVN troops. It may be that the round butt was better suited to their smaller hands. It became clear quickly that they could not carry a Garand or an M14 rifle so M1 carbines were pressed into service for them and part of the rationale for the M16 was the size was much better for smaller men.
This is pure conjecture on my part but I know hundreds of the round butt guns were given to ARVN troops. It may be that the round butt was better suited to their smaller hands. It became clear quickly that they could not carry a Garand or an M14 rifle so M1 carbines were pressed into service for them and part of the rationale for the M16 was the size was much better for smaller men.
