S&W lock failure--it finally happened
- Thread starter Ralph G. Briscoe
- Start date
cmj8591
Member
Lock!? Smith and Wesson's have a lock!?
There are good reasons Mr Murphy came out with his pronouncements.
white cloud
Member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2009
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Ralph,
Thanks for posting this. I think this is useful information.
Thanks for posting this. I think this is useful information.
Scorpion520AZ
Member
Don't Panic
None of my EDC pieces have a manually operated internal lock so I don't have a dog in this fight. Personally I wouldn't recommend disabling any safety/lock feature in any carry gun. I'd simply carry something else.
I do have two range toys with internal locks, 625 & 986, zero issues, zero concerns.
Anything designed by man can fail. Apollo 13 ring a bell? Over the course of three decades I saw hundreds of men and women every year qualifying, training, and practicing with S&W revolvers. Although it was very rare, I saw S&W revolvers lock-up long before the internal lock was a gleam in the Clinton's eyes. The most common causes were the ammunition being used, reloaded ammo being the number one culprit there, and/or the operator.
Excerpts From:
The S&W Revolver Internal Lock
By Chris Baker
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/smith-and-wesson-internal-lock/
"Despite all the damning evidence, the Smith & Wesson internal lock problem is likely not as bad as it appears. In truth, we only have anecdotal evidence that some S&W locks have malfunctioned. We have no real data that would indicate the prevalence of such problems. You can also find anecdotal evidence of exploding Glocks, slides flying off Berettas, and self-firing Remington 700s. Taken individually, none of these reports necessarily indicate any specific trend or “epidemic”. Guns are machines and all machines fail eventually. Some design weaknesses can make certain failures more likely, but it’s really tricky to determine just how likely."
"The reported problems often involve revolvers that have had custom work performed on them, or were pre-owned. It’s also a safe assumption that many broken lock claims have come from S&W owners who tinkered with their revolvers but chose to leave that fact out of their “report”."
"Many of the so-called “internal lock failures” can actually be attributed to user error or some other problem not lock related. Of course, a broken gun is a broken gun, but not all supposed lock failures are genuinely what their owners initially assume they are."
Full Article:
The S&W Revolver Internal Lock
By Chris Baker
Follow Link then click on "Continue to LuckyGunner.com"
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/smith-and-wesson-internal-lock/
None of my EDC pieces have a manually operated internal lock so I don't have a dog in this fight. Personally I wouldn't recommend disabling any safety/lock feature in any carry gun. I'd simply carry something else.
I do have two range toys with internal locks, 625 & 986, zero issues, zero concerns.
Anything designed by man can fail. Apollo 13 ring a bell? Over the course of three decades I saw hundreds of men and women every year qualifying, training, and practicing with S&W revolvers. Although it was very rare, I saw S&W revolvers lock-up long before the internal lock was a gleam in the Clinton's eyes. The most common causes were the ammunition being used, reloaded ammo being the number one culprit there, and/or the operator.
Excerpts From:
The S&W Revolver Internal Lock
By Chris Baker
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/smith-and-wesson-internal-lock/
"Despite all the damning evidence, the Smith & Wesson internal lock problem is likely not as bad as it appears. In truth, we only have anecdotal evidence that some S&W locks have malfunctioned. We have no real data that would indicate the prevalence of such problems. You can also find anecdotal evidence of exploding Glocks, slides flying off Berettas, and self-firing Remington 700s. Taken individually, none of these reports necessarily indicate any specific trend or “epidemic”. Guns are machines and all machines fail eventually. Some design weaknesses can make certain failures more likely, but it’s really tricky to determine just how likely."
"The reported problems often involve revolvers that have had custom work performed on them, or were pre-owned. It’s also a safe assumption that many broken lock claims have come from S&W owners who tinkered with their revolvers but chose to leave that fact out of their “report”."
"Many of the so-called “internal lock failures” can actually be attributed to user error or some other problem not lock related. Of course, a broken gun is a broken gun, but not all supposed lock failures are genuinely what their owners initially assume they are."
Full Article:
The S&W Revolver Internal Lock
By Chris Baker
Follow Link then click on "Continue to LuckyGunner.com"
https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/smith-and-wesson-internal-lock/
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Doug M.
Member
Some years ago, a very serious expert in the field, active in LE, training, and ballistics research, mentioned in a discussion (I think it was on another forum more directed to military/LE folks) that he was aware of agencies that prohibit lockable revolvers from being carried by officers because they are unsafe.
I don't care about the esthetics, but I won't have a firearm that is not at least potentially suitable for serious use, which precludes the lock models. It is not only a solution in search of a problem, but counterproductive (unsafe) in a serious use firearm.
Range toy? Fine. Hunting, SD, etc? No. Hell no. A zillion times hell no.
I don't care about the esthetics, but I won't have a firearm that is not at least potentially suitable for serious use, which precludes the lock models. It is not only a solution in search of a problem, but counterproductive (unsafe) in a serious use firearm.
Range toy? Fine. Hunting, SD, etc? No. Hell no. A zillion times hell no.
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amazingflapjack
US Veteran
I have a couple of early production revolvers that came w/lock, but they are gone now. With all of the negative stuff you hear on here about Taurus, I sure wish that S&W had put their lock on the back of the hammer like they did-of course, a lock on a revolver is like teets on a boar hog, as my old grand dad used to say.
It wouldn't have mattered where S&W put it, people would have complained.
As long as there's no bashing, there's no reason why the thread should be closed. For those unfamiliar with the term bashing, read the sticky on top of this section or click on the link below.
Bashing, Crying, & Whining
Kernel Crittenden
US Veteran
Since S&W has been selling lock revolvers for almost 20 years, and we live in such a litigious society, there must be hundreds of successfully lawsuits documenting lock problems. Lawyers and damaged owners must be making millions off all these well researched failures.
Lock Trolls: Please post links to just a few of these many lawsuits, I wanna get my payout. One would be enough.
Lock Trolls: Please post links to just a few of these many lawsuits, I wanna get my payout. One would be enough.
Triathloncoach
Member
I appreciate that this was a first hand experience. Not a friend of a friend, ect.
joe44va
Member
I wonder how many rounds have been fired thru S&W revolvers with locks by forum members in the last 20 years. I suspect that it's a considerable number and that failures are at a very, very small rate. This is the first, first hand report I've seen here. I plan on keeping my revolvers with locks and will probably buy more.
Are there legal implications to removing the lock?
medic15al
Member
In your area it could be possible, but I believe it would be more of a factor in the civil suit as ammo against you attacking the mindset rather than the action. A shooting should be judged on whether the act was a lawful use of deadly force or not rather than the tool in a criminal trial. But with people like the way they are and juries are people, you really don't know.
Triggernosis
Member
Screw "legality".
Also, if S&W can make guns like the 643 with or without the lock, why don't they offer that option in EVERY revolver? I mean, damn, installing the lock actually takes more steps, parts, and work. Just eliminate it already!
Also, if S&W can make guns like the 643 with or without the lock, why don't they offer that option in EVERY revolver? I mean, damn, installing the lock actually takes more steps, parts, and work. Just eliminate it already!
Not the first time this has happened and wont be the last. 
Our agency, as well as the two neighboring agencies, forbid the use of IL equipped revolvers. For off duty as well.
We had two IL equipped J-frames lock up on the range during annual qualifications.
A lot of agencies forbid their use. Why do you think they finally started making lock free J-frames again? They were losing LE sales and MONEY!
Regards 18DAI
Our agency, as well as the two neighboring agencies, forbid the use of IL equipped revolvers. For off duty as well.
We had two IL equipped J-frames lock up on the range during annual qualifications.
A lot of agencies forbid their use. Why do you think they finally started making lock free J-frames again? They were losing LE sales and MONEY!
Regards 18DAI
Kernel Crittenden
US Veteran
Your saying the failure of a safety lock on a firearm wouldn't attract legal attention in our day and age? Turn on the TV. Gun issues are kinda a big deal right now. Some days it's all they talk about.
That lock is there to protect children from evil dangerous guns, and everyone knows guns can just "go off" by themselves. Failure of that lock puts children at risk!
Get that in front of a jury in the right venue and make millions off a wicked Gun Merchant. Where are all the millionaires? In 20 years, not even one?
one eye joe
US Veteran
ONE RAMIFICATION IS THAT IT WILL VOID YOUR FACTORY WARRANTY ! ! !
