S&W Mk 22 Mod 0 - Rebirth

[dvelleux]

Folks,

I had started this thread on another forum about a project I am starting on...

Like a Phoenix from the ashes, I am working to recreate the S&W Mk 22 Mod 0 Hush Puppy pistol used by the SEALs during Vietnam and throughout the 1970s. So far, I possess a complete slide assembly for a 39 series pistol, which has the short extractor, 4" barrel, and the rear sight with "wings." That is where things are right now in hand physically...

What I have done so far is to create PDF mechanical drawings for the following parts:

Front Sight - http://www.artisanccw.com/images/mk22mod0frontsight.pdf. The first front sight is being made currently. Installing the new front sight requires the existing front sight be milled entirely away. And I just learned the gent working of the front sight will have pics for me of said item later today!!!

Faux Mk 3 Suppressor - http://www.artisanccw.com/images/mk3can.pdf. The faux Mk 3 suppressor has been totally designed and will be made come next May. Before going too far with this unit though, I saw a "dust cover" in a picture of a Hush Puppy with the can attached, which is on this post as well. A "suitable sub" for the "dust cover" was found and is on its way. Once I have that part in hand, I will again modify my drawing to incorporate the "dust cover," thus finalizing the drawing for the faux can...


Rear Sight "Wing" & Elevation Screw - http://www.artisanccw.com/images/mk22mod0rearsight.pdf. This part is also in a prototype manufacturing stage. The longer elevation screw is in process as well. I will also note Dockery is WRONG with regard to the use of a Model 52 rear sight with the Mk 22. The confines of the rear sight "wings" will NOT allow for windage adjustment for the rear sight, as the 52's rear sight windage blade is MUCH larger than the sight used on the Mk 22...

Barrel - After an extensive search online, I believe I have found a custom barrel maker who can make the 5" extended, threaded barrel needed. By stroke of luck, said person owns a 39-2...

The book I am using as reference is Special Warfare, Special Weapons by Kevin Dockery, his first book on SEAL weaponry. (I had bought his second book on SEAL Weaponry for a cheap price, but gave it away because it was merely an "updating" of the first book and it contained the very same errors within the first book as well...) I do admit there was some errors in the book, notably for the section on the Mk 22 Mod 0 about the threading pitch for the barrel to screw on the Mk 3 can. Page 34 claims the pitch was 1/2" - 20 tpi, while the text on the very next page stated 1/2" - 32tpi. With the barrel I will have made early next year, the maker and I had already determined to use 1/2" - 28tpi, today's standard threading for a 9mm suppressed sidearm...

Once I get my grimy mitts on a real 39 pistol, I will be able to quickly reverse engineer the double-sided slide lock. I am having a debate in my mind right now though if the actual Hush Puppy slide lock was also a slide hold open. I am questioning this based upon an image taken from an old book on military weaponry. Please see the attached image of the disassembled slide lock for further details...

Additionally, I am continuing to study images of the Hush Puppy and I just learned one thing: this pistol could NOT have been made based on the original Model 39...

Why?

With the original Model 39, if you look at the opening for the slide hold open, the top of the opening is kind of like a "ski slope," in that there are 3 small curves that form a kind of "hill" in the profile. With every image I have found and have seen of the Hush Puppy, that same area is merely a slanted straight line, hence it can only be either the 39-1 or 39-2 as the basis for the pistol.Production of the all steel 39 ended in 1966, over a year before the contract was signed to produce the Hush Puppy. This should also lead to one to deduct the Hush Puppy DID, in fact, have an aluminum alloy frame, since the 39-1 introduced said feature and the shorter extractor in 1965, while (I believe) the 39-2 brought about an even smaller extractor in 1967. S&W used up their inventory of parts when transitioning between the 39-1 & 39-2. It appears there was some overlap of production with the two models...

This is all I have currently. I shall keep folks updated as new things come to the fore...

Mods,

I am merely documenting my discoveries of this historic and fascinating military handgun. Please email me at [EMAIL="[email protected]][email protected][/EMAIL] before you do anything with this thread...

PLEASE????

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

The gent making the prototype front sight just completed it and sent me a few pics, which I combined into one image!!! This is GREAT news!!!

 

[civil1977]

It sounds like an interesting project but some of your info is slightly off as S&W never made a 39-1. In the late 1950s, S&W started experimenting with 39s chambered in .38 AMU for the Army's Marksmanship Training Unit. The .38 AMU was essentially a modified .38 Special case made to function better in magazines and to avoid confusion with the 39 they ended up calling it the Model 52A.

On your picture with the four slides, the middle two appear to be 39-2 and the bottom one is a 439. You can tell the 439 by the different sights and the short extractor which appeared on the early 439s.

 

[colt_saa]

I have had this one for many years now

BTW, why a faux suppressor? Just file a form-1 and build a working can.

 

[dvelleux]

BTW, why a faux suppressor? Just file a form-1 and build a working can.

Not allowed in the Illinois Democratic Republic...

 

[colt_saa]

Not allowed in the Illinois Democratic Republic...

Your profile does not include your location.

I am quite familiar with IL laws. I was born and raised in Chicago. Firearms rights is a major part of why Florida was chosen for relocation.

 

[dvelleux]

It sounds like an interesting project but some of your info is slightly off as S&W never made a 39-1. In the late 1950s, S&W started experimenting with 39s chambered in .38 AMU for the Army's Marksmanship Training Unit. The .38 AMU was essentially a modified .38 Special case made to function better in magazines and to avoid confusion with the 39 they ended up calling it the Model 52A.

On your picture with the four slides, the middle two appear to be 39-2 and the bottom one is a 439. You can tell the 439 by the different sights and the short extractor which appeared on the early 439s.

From another thread:

"The wide short extractor was one of the recommendations made by our range folks along with a few other modifications. Our range people worked very closely with S&W for a lot of years on various modifications which ultimately resulted in the 3rd gen autos.

Most of our 39-nothing were converted over to the wide short extractor. Might have been a some early 39-nothing that were issued and then bought by retirees before being converted. The one pictured below is the one I was issued. You will see on the top of the slide an indent for the roll pin which holds the extractor in place. Yours has the same roll pin. The older long extractors did not have that roll pin in that location."

I found the complete slide for sale online listed as a 39-2. Now given the above and what you said, I am confused. On my slide, the extractor does NOT have a roll pin, nor any type of pin holding it in the slide. I found a few schematics online showing the extractor that way and the drawing was listed as a 39-2. Can you point me in another direction? TIA...

.

 

[dvelleux]

Your profile does not include your location.

I am quite familiar with IL laws. I was born and raised in Chicago. Firearms rights is a major part of why Florida was chosen for relocation.

I TRULY wish I can join you down in the South...

 

[grif684]

Your listed quote in thread #7 is referring to a modification of a 39 no dash extractor, none of yoyr photos depict that particular extractor, and it is true there never was a mkdel 39-1, your pictures clearly show a model 39, then a model 39-2, then finally an early 439 or 539 slide, with the short extractor that was only used on early second gens, they went back to a dash 2 style extractor not too long after second gen production started....the slide you have was simply mis-identified by the person you acquired it from, it has a firing pin safety and is not readily compatible with a first gen frame (39 or 39-2).....great project, sounds like you've done some good hush puppy research, just do a little more research on the first and second gen 39s and you should have all the info you need to complete it....

 

[civil1977]

So far, I possess a complete slide assembly for a 39 series pistol, which has the short extractor, 4" barrel, and the rear sight with "wings."

It sounds like you have a 439 slide to me. Does it look like the bottom slide in the forth picture above?

 

[grif684]

Forgot to mention the slide notch you talked about went through a few variations in shape during the 39 series production, the function did not change, just the appearance, they all work the same, and yes, the Mk22 model 0 was based on the 39, and from what I have read about them, the later versions used a frame very similar to a model 59, giving it the fourteen round capacity.....

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

Okay, so given the info stated previously, every Hush Puppy was a 39-2, with alloy frame and a narrow, short extractor. That fact may NOT be such a bad thing, since most of the 39-2s used the "lollipop" style rear sight. To create a dovetail for the rear sight "wings," material will need to be added on to the slide, then shaped to match the rounded top profile of the slide, prior to milling the dovetail itself...

 

[grif684]

Actually, all 39 and 39-2s used the lollipop, the "winged" rear sight did not appear until the introduction of the second gens, 439,539,639, etc. And I believe the hush puppies were BASED on the model 39, and later were apparently built on a 59 style frame.....from the hush puppy photos I have seen, your best bet would be to use a later second gen adjustable sight slide with the dash 2 style extractor, you would have to eliminate the firing pin safety though, but you would have the correct type of milled out area for a taller winged rear sight....

 

[civil1977]

I've looked through the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson 3rd Edition (you should get this if you don't already have it) and the Smith & Wesson Handguns 2002 Special Collectors Editon publication and here's some more information for you.

Both publications say that the Mark 22 Model 0 as adopted by the Navy was a 14 shot pistol......not 8 shot like the 39. Per the Smith & Wesson Handguns 2002 Special Collectors Editon, in 1968 after examining prototype high capacity Model 39s, the Navy ordered suppressed, 14 round, black finished STAINLESS STEEL guns.......this 14 round concept eventually became the Model 59, which appeared in 1971. The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson says these guns were 14 round but lists them as alloy frame and steel slide......again, very similar to what was to become the Model 59.

The Smith & Wesson Handguns 2002 Special Collectors Editon shows a nice picture (see below) of what they call a "rare single stack version based on the Model 39 and the 14 round double stack contract version". The rare single stack Model 39 pictured has a serial number of A123334 which falls into the Model 39-2 timeframe. This gun also has "MK 22 MOD 0" stamped below the SN on the left side of the frame. The double stack gun's SN is partially obscured but appears to be a "T" followed by numbers which could indicate a Tool Room gun.

With that all said, it appears that while there were a few (possibly prototypes) single stack, Model 39-2 based Mark 22 Model 0 Hushpuppys, the actual Navy contract for 200 units were 14 round double stack pistols more like the Model 59.

Hope this helps. Nothing wrong with building a clone on a Model 39-2 frame, in fact I'd probably prefer the slimmer single stack grip profile.

 

[grif684]

civil, I have read this as well, but most pictures I have seen are of the single stack type, I have only seen a couple of pics of the double stack variety, it would be nice to get someone on the forum with first hand knowledge of these models....I do believe both versions are displayed in a museum, just can' t remember which museum.....

 

[dvelleux]

grif,

I had those images before, but when I blew them up to see the details of the writing on the slide's left side, the words "Air System Gun" are the entire second line of the markings. And after looking at that pic again, the top line reads "Model 39 S&W."

The first book by Kevin Dockery on SEAL weaponry did discuss a bit about the 14 shot versions. Dockery stated basically because of the way S&W had its production lines set up, it took 18 months to deliver 12 pistols...

 

[dvelleux]

civil, et al.,

I think there may be errors in S&W's books. The Hush Puppy was an 8 shot pistol. Any later changes which resulted in the 59 came a great deal later...

Kevin Dockery's books have errors too, such the thread pitch for the barrel for the can In his first book, Dockery claims 1/2"-20tpi on Page 34, then on Page 35, he states 1/2"-32tpi. Additionally, he claims the rear sight used on the Hush Puppy was the rear sight of a 52. However, the rear blade of the 52 sight is unable to fit within the confines of the "wings," hence that too is an error. And for his second book, he and/or the publisher did NOT even bother to correct the errors prior to publishing the book...

While we are discussing details, please look at the second image below of the slide lock unit. From what I can discern, the slide hold open "lever" to function with the magazine appears to not even exist, hence the pistol would NOT cause the slide to lock back when the last shot was fired. Are we in agreement on that point?

Sidebar: does anyone have an idea where to buy black plastic 39 grips that have the logo and the checkering, but without an faux wood grain?

 

[grif684]

There is no reason for a magazine actuated slide lock, the slide does not cycle when fired, it is locked in battery.....

 

[dvelleux]

I managed to buy nearly a complete 39-2 (sans frame) pistol off an online site. Since it is a true 39-2 slide, I will need to have the lollipop cutout welded over and a dovetail cut...

 

[dvelleux]

Folks,

More GREAT news!!! Attached below are two images of the very first three prototype rear sight "wings" prior to bending!!!

Once they get bent and sent to me, I will MOST DEFINITELY post further pics...

I just got up and this already made my day start off right...