S&W Model 3 American...

[Pirateer2007]

This is my first post here, so I'm sorry if I am not following protocol, but I was wondering if there was anyone out there who could help me find some info on a pistol I just traded into.

So here is what I know... It has a 4-digit SN starting in 64xx. Based on initial research, it looks like it is a first model. Not quite sure though.

Here is a quick pic...

It is in really good shape as far as the finish and the bore, but it does have a couple mechanical issues.

Are there any gunsmiths out there who specialize in old S&W top breaks?

Any info is greatly appreciated!
-Adam

 

[glowe]

Welcome to the Forum Adam. You did just fine, offering more information than many first time posters.

You have a First Model .44 American S&W. Not many of these made, with serial numbers from 1 to 8000. There were 2 variations of this model that are even rarer. First, the U.S. numbered series which were sold to the U.S. military. 1000 of these were stamped with U.S. and inspection marks, but the last one was about 2200. Second, the Transitional or oil hole variation, which you can check for by looking under the barrel near the pivot to check for a small hole into the extractor mechanism.

Your gun was probably shipped between 1870 and 1872, and with that serial number, maybe 1872. This is a significant revolver, since it was the first large frame S&W manufactured and a great example of the old west six-gun.

You may have a refinished Smith there, since the edges of the metal seem rounded, but hard to tell with only one picture. I would consider looking at Oldwestgunsmith website for repair or parts. David Chicoine is an expert gunsmith and has a great deal of experience working on S&W revolvers. Parts are hard to come by and may have to be machined, but I think the investment will be worth it, since working examples of these old S&Ws are few and far between.

Good job and good luck with your trade.

 

[Pirateer2007]

Thanks so much! I have heard of David Chicoine and the work he does is supposed to be very good quality. How are his prices?

Also, do you have a place you go to for ammunition? I am not going to try and make this a "shooter" but I do try to put at least a round or two through every firearm I own.

II only live about one and a half hours from Buffalo Arms up here in Idaho, but .44S&W is well over $100/box.

Thanks for all of your info!!
-Adam

 

[glowe]

I am sure that David would give you an estimate of cost before work would be done, but without knowing exactly what needs to be done, I could not offer a guess on cost. At any rate, you will be making a good investment, since these revolvers should sell for $2000 & up in good working order.

I used to buy ammo from 2nd Amendment, but I can not find them anymore. They reformed and trimmed 41 Remington Mag ammo. I think that is the same as 41 S&W Mag brass. I do not shoot mine often, but have reloaded the original cases with 200 grain .44 Russian bullets, which are a little smaller diameter, but you do not have to worry about external lubrication as with the old American bullet. If you do not reload, there are few options other than paying the big dollar for factory BP loads. Maybe you can find a reloader that can help you locally.

 

[opoefc]

Adam. Your gun is in caliber .44 American, a black powder round, not .44S&W. Correct ammo. is almost nonexistent, except in cartridge collections and is very expensive. Those who want to shoot their .44 American models hand load the ammo from reformed cases, as cited above. Your gun has been refinished in the past which will keep it's value in the lower 4 digit range, as a collectable. The serial number on these guns appears only on the butt and on the backside of the right grip panel ( if the grips are original) , An assembly code will be stamped on the frame, cylinder and barrel. Usually consisting of 2 or three letters and/or numbers. If they match, then the gun's parts are originally as shipped from S&W. You can obtain a factory historical letter for the gun from Roy Jinks, S&W Factory Historian for $50. It will tell you when & where the gun was shipped and the original configuration, etc. Most American models in the serial range of your gun were shipped to a S&W distributor and not to individual buyers. David Chicoine can repair your gun, and will give you an estimate of the cost. He and his son do the work and it can be expensive depending on what you want done. You can send the gun to him for an estimate, however these guns are not rocket science, and any competent gunsmith should be able to identify what needs to be done to get the gun in good working order. Often just a really good cleaning, including disassembly & reassembly, will solve many problems, as years of old grease, oils & crud are probably living inside the action. I have acquired dozens of these old guns over the years, usually with problems when I got them, but the thorough cleaning solved 90% of the ills. Good Luck, Ed.

 

[Pirateer2007]

Thanks Ed!

Is there a schematic or possibly a step-by-step on how to disassemble and reassemble these guys? I am a Winchester Lever collector and have never taken apart a revolver. The last thing I want to do is screw anything up beyond repair. I help my brother with things like his old DA Colt Lightening, but nothing of my own.

I really appreciate all of the support I've already received here!
Merry Christmas!
-Adam

 

[Pirateer2007]

The grip does have the SN on it, but it was written in pencil. Looks very old and curvy, but it wasn't stamped like a cartouche or burned or anything like that, so can I assume that these are not the original grips?
Thanks again!
-Adam

 

[glowe]

Actually, I have not seen a Model 3 Single Action that did not have stamped serial numbers on the grip. I would be suspect if it were added with pencil. How is the fit? These revolvers were hand finished and stocks fitted to the frame very accurately. I think I can see exposed frame metal on your gun, so they may be from another gun. There are accounts of the grips shrinking, but I don't think that happens with wood grips, but rather over sanding during an old refinish.

David Chicoine has a book out there, probably available on Amazon, titled Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West. It does a very good job of covering Model 3s, so may be worth the money for you, if it saves you a trip to the gunsmith.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

David Chicoine has a book out there, probably available on Amazon, titled Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West. It does a very good job of covering Model 3s, so may be worth the money for you, if it saves you a trip to the gunsmith.

Howdy

Dave Chicoine has two books that will be useful. In addition to Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West he wrote another book called Antique Firearms, Assembly and Disassembly.

I have both books. The instructions for taking a S&W American apart in the Assembly/Disassembly book are better than the instructions in the Gunsmithing book.

The instructions in the Assembly/Disassembly book are accompanied by detailed photographs. The instructions in the Gunsmithing book are not. For my money, the Assemblyh/Disassembly book is better for taking guns apart and putting them back together again. But that's pretty much all it covers, it does not cover gunsmithing. The Gunsmithing book has a lot of information about actually working on and repairing the old guns.

Both are available from Amazon.

 

[glowe]

I also have both books, but since Adam's gun is not working, I recommended the ginsmithing book, but if he can, by all means buy both.

 

[new2S&W]

David's book, Antique Firearms Assembly/Disassembly is also available from Amazon as a Kindle download if you want quick information. Download onto your Kindle or PC for a very reasonable $10.79.

 

[deadin]

Adam,
If you can disassemble/assemble a Winchester Lever Gun, you shouldn't have any problem with a S&W American...

(Just be careful removing the sideplate. Don't try to "pry" it off. The accepted way for removal is to take the screws out and grips off, then rap on the grip frame with a hammer handle or other piece of hardwood until the plate works its way loose.)

 

[Pirateer2007]

I pulled it apart today(it's funny... With the side plate it is quite similar to a Winchester 1873 ) it looks good on the inside. The piece that turns the cylinder just kind of flops around. It is missing the trigger retention spring. I believe there should be a spring in the sliding deal on the bottom of the joint. Right now it just slides forward and back. The cylinder stop kind of works, but the spring is very thin and heavily worn. Other than those issues it is in good working order

Sorry for my lack of knowledge when it comes to names of components

 

[glowe]

There is a small flat spring attached with a pin to the hammer, inside where the hand pivots. That is often broken and easliy replaced. I have made a few using spring steel and it returns the function to the hand that rotates the cylinder.

The cylinder stop spring is normally quite thin and has a eyelet that attaches the spring to the frame using a screw on the inside of the frame under the cylinder. That is another part that is quite easy to remanufacture with a little care. If you have not worked with spring steel before, a gunsmith could make these replacement parts.

It sounds like you may be able to return this American to working order with those 2 springs replaced. Good to hear that all the major parts were found inside - makes the job much easier, since there are practically no parts available for these revolvers any more.

 

[Pirateer2007]

Is there any way to get a schematic with specs on all of the parts? I have a friend who works for a fabrication shop and they make everything from tiny little computer bits all the way to components for those huge energy wind mills.

 

[opoefc]

There's no schematics on these old guns, that I know of, gives dimensions, etc. of the parts. If you can't visualize what need to be made up to make the gun function, beg, borrow or steal another American to make a copy of the parts you need. Or try PoppertsGunParts.com to see if they have these parts. Good Luck, Ed.

 

[Pirateer2007]

Thanks Ed, and a many thanks to the rest of you guys too for all your help!!
Merry Christmas!
-Adam