S&w model 41, ejection issues

mandkthomas

Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
I have about a little over 1000 rounds through a new m41 pc, and have occasional ejection issues, like every 60 rounds or so. I have 5 mags, and have not isolated any particular one as associated to the issue. I clean the pistol every 200 rounds or so. I'm shooting only CCI sv ammo from a common batch. The typical failure condition is the spend round is resting sideways on the face of the chamber, with the slide resting against it. The plop test seems good, and the round will drop free from the chamber with a slight bump. The extractor will hold a round on the face of the slide without wobbling when shaken. Thoughts?
 

Attachments

  • picture_2019_12_19_8_20_22_836.jpg
    picture_2019_12_19_8_20_22_836.jpg
    85.6 KB · Views: 54
Register to hide this ad
If you look on this sub forum you will find a few threads about this and other 41 issues. The most common advice is to start by replacing the extractor with the aftermarket one by Volquartsen. Putting a drop of oil on the top round in each magazine also works for a lot of people.

Replacing the extractor and recoil spring did not work for me and I do not want to bother with the extra step of oiling ammo. So I bought a buffer to reduce any battering from HV ammo and started shooting MiniMags through mine which always work. It is not quite as accurate as the SV ammo but shooting offhand the gun is still more accurate than I am. The M41 may have been designed for SV ammo but mine just doesn't like it. I would rather use reliable ammo and take a slight hit in accuracy and increased wear. That is a minority opinion, most people here will try harder to get SV ammo running.

Amazing how a macro lens can make the cleanest gun look dirty. no matter how clean a gun looks to my eye when I take a closeup like that there is always a bunch of lint or something that makes it look like I never clean my guns.
 
Model 41 issues

I own and shoot several Model 41 and have had similar issues with standard velocity ammo. I switched to hi-vel ammo such as Mini-Mags and the guns run well. I have yet to have a Model 41 develope problems with hi-vel ammo.

do what you think is best.
 
That drop of oil on the first round should take care of that problem, the oil goes on the brass not the bullet. After more rounds the oil will not be necessary, mine took about 1000 rounds before it was no longer needed.
 
Known problem with the 41 since the beginning. I polished my chambers until mine just fall out without tapping it on the surface. Works great now. May want to try that. Mine will shoot CCI SV and what I shoot the most out of her for steel plates is HV Box ammo.
 
Loading with Mini Mags will most likely solve your problem. I've shot thousands of rounds of it and never had a problem with a Model 41.

A sage old gunsmith told me many moons ago that when someone brought a .22 to him with feed/ejection problems, he would feed it Mini Mags. He opined that if it wouldn't run with Mini Mags, the gun needed work.
 
Having been a gunsmith for 40+ years including working for S&W, I've had the opportunity to beat on a lot of rimfires.

This strictly a suggestion because you sound like you know what you are doing and may already be doing this. Make absolutely sure you are getting ALL of the carbon ring out of the chamber when you clean the pistol. Your issue sounds like a "short recoil" problem. The slide is not coming back hard enough and you are losing ejector authority.
I've seen a lot of rimfires that folks thought were clean but had a very hard to see carbon ring in the chamber that was causing a delay in extraction and short slide recoil.
Your problem is so intermittent it probably isn't this issue.
I have also run into a problem with CCI Green Tag and Federal Auto Match with an occasional "short round". An under powered round that short cycles the slide. We figured this out when we started testing over a chronograph. Take some of these suggestions and give them a try. If the gun runs consistently with HV ammo, it may be just an ammo problem. I do hate the idea of having to run a 41 on anything but SV, match ammo. I think I would also try one of the other suggestions of a good chamber polish, as long as it's done correctly without hurting the pistols potential. Good Luck!

"Taj" M.A. Hall
 
Taj, thanks for the advise - I scrubbed the chamber on my PPQ 22LR - it's helped quite a bit on that pistol. To the points above, that pistol seems 'tuned' to CCI Mini-mags.

After further research and testing, all the eject issues on the M41 were with one magazine (I finally numbered them, which allowed me to track failures). I have no failures out of about 200 rounds once I isolated the one magazine.

Further testing indicated the one magazine is getting an ejection failure about 80% of the time after the first round only, and only when loaded with more than 3 rounds (works fine with only 2 or 3 rounds, I did not test 4)…

I reached out to S-W customer support on Friday afternoon, but did not get an answer (expect at a holiday parties). I hope to get a replacement magazine for the defective one, since I just bought it, and will further validate my testing with the new one.

Thanks again.
 
Yeah, all that lint in the picture is pretty funny - I just cleaned it with the cotton patches that come with a Hoppes No. 9 cleaning kit. Shoulda used an air-can on it before posting pictures of my linty extractor!
 
I've seen a lot of rimfires that folks thought were clean but had a very hard to see carbon ring in the chamber that was causing a delay in extraction and short slide recoil.

Interesting post; thanks Taj. What are your suggestions for cleaning out a carbon ring?
 
After further research and testing, all the eject issues on the M41 were with one magazine (I finally numbered them, which allowed me to track failures). I have no failures out of about 200 rounds once I isolated the one magazine.

Further testing indicated the one magazine is getting an ejection failure about 80% of the time after the first round only, and only when loaded with more than 3 rounds (works fine with only 2 or 3 rounds, I did not test 4)…

This is why I always suggest numbering magazines before anything else. Lots of people go from "It happens with all my magazines" to "Well, just this one...". If you don't have your magazines numbered, don't say that it happens with every magazine, because you just don't know.

And the very first thing anyone will tell you at that point is, "Number your mags."

Various points:

(1) The "oil the top round" thing works by virtue of the oil taking up volume in the chamber, increasing the pressure slightly (liquids don't compress). It's a band-aid fix, and not a very good one.

(2) Cleaning every 200 rounds is excessive as hell. With light periodic lubrication, you should be going 1000-1500 rounds in most environments, and very likely more than that. I've seen more problems caused by over-lubricated rimfires than dirty ones. If it's still functioning, just keep it lubed.

(3) For whatever reason, your problematic magazine is riding high in the frame. This causes the top round to rub on the bottom of the slide as it moves, slowing the slide down and retarding ejection. This is common across target .rimfires. Feeding .22LRs is pretty tricky.

(4) The same stoppage--stovepiping--can be caused by a recoil spring that's too weak relative to the strength of the ammunition, not just too strong like most people think. If the slide cycles too fast, it catches the case still in the chamber.
 
Last edited:
One area that should always be kept clean. If too much powder residue accumulates underneath the slide stop ejector it will cause friction. Look for wear spots on the inside of the slide
If the bases of the studs accumulate powder,oil it can cause the slide stop to rise and you will start to see wear spots on top of the slide stop.

The slide stop on bottom is from day one. 1982
The one on the top is brand new and has seen one 200 round session and you can already see wear spots starting.

IMO, on my 41 I think the pocket should have gone just a few thousands deeper.
 

Attachments

  • DSC01446.jpg
    DSC01446.jpg
    210.2 KB · Views: 35
  • DSC01451.jpg
    DSC01451.jpg
    132.9 KB · Views: 31
Last edited:
Back
Top