S&W Model 52-2, failure to fire quite often.

[mikemyers]

I'll work on this when I'm fresh in the morning. I'll use the plastic bags again in case anything goes flying. Will remove the safety first, and then the firing pin and spring. I'm trying to think of a way that I can take a photo of the plunger from inside the hole, before I remove it. Maybe if I had a bore-scope....

Is this likely to work?

 

[donk52]

It won't matter. Once you open it up take a pic of the old plunger. When you put in the new one it should fall out easily when you turn the slide up side down. No hang ups. Get the sight over the new plunger and spring and push it in a few times to feel for roughness.

 

[mikemyers]

Don, not sure when the parts will get here. I'm going to have a time issue, as I leave for India on April 8 for a month. I'll see what happens.

From what you've said, and from the pictures, the plunger has a flat on one side, which I assume is to keep it from protruding into the firing pin chamber. Something is likely wrong with my plunger, which allows the plunger to rotate, to where the plunger does interfere with the firing pin action, which is then unable to reach the primer with all the force it needs to fire the primer. I assume it is the firing pin spring that is hitting this plunger, reducing the amount of energy little by little as each coil in the spring bumps over the plunger.

Assuming the slide is OK, the new plunger should fit the slide, keeping the flat side of the plunger facing the firing pin chamber.

You've said the slide is most likely fine, and fixing this gun depends on getting this plunger working correctly.


Presumably, if I were to leave the magazine in the gun, then remove the safety as you showed me earlier (hemostat on firing pin to keep it "in"), then remove hemostat, remove firing pin and spring, and then look into the firing pin chamber, I would see and be able to feel this plunger blocking part of the chamber area.

So everything is on hold, until I get the replacement parts from Numrich.


I'm also curious about something. The reason this is causing the light strikes is because much of the energy that was transferred to the firing pin from the hammer, is being used up as the coils of the firing pin spring bump their way by the plunger. There's enough energy for light strikes, but not enough to reliably fire the gun. What would happen if I took one of my three "extra strength firing pin springs" from Wolff Springs, cut something off the end, making it shorter, then tested the gun. All that energy now being wasted by the firing pin spring going past the plunger would be reduced; if it was reduced enough, the firing pin might still hit the primer with enough force to fire it. All I would need the firing pin spring to do, is return the firing pin to the original position, waiting for the next hit from the hammer. ........anyway, this is just a thought in case fixing it properly with a new plunger doesn't fix the gun. Ignore it for now.



When I get the gun apart, I'll post a good close-up photo of the plunger. Hopefully it does NOT look good, and replacing it with a good plunger will correct the problem.

 

[mikemyers]

Hmm, I think I have found the problem (but I've said that before).

I decided to simplify things, disassembled the gun, and while it was apart, I just put the slide on the frame, but this time with the magazine in the gun. No barrel, no recoil spring, just the slide, barrel, and magazine.

I moved the slide to the rear, then moved it back and forth. As I did so, the safety started to turn on!!! This is without my touching it. It's very repeatable, but without a third hand, I don't see how I can. capture a video. Will try some more..... Check the area by the hammer, to see how little I've moved the slide!

Here are two photos, one with the slide back, and another with the slide pushed a little forwards.

With the magazine in place, the firing pin and spring assembly "binds up" like something rubbing. I'm beginning to think what is rubbing is the safety rubbing on the firing pin somehow.

This may explain why the previous person to work on the gun said he was filing a "burr" off from the safety. Maybe the safety is defective? Maybe this other fellow damaged it? I have a new safety on the way, so maybe that will be all it takes to fix this.

I need to load more ammo, but if this is what's going on, if I push the safety towards the "off" direction, the gun should fire, and if I keep checking it, I expect I might find that the safety is turned partially "on" without my touching it.

Regardless, nothing that I'm aware of, that I'm doing, should be activating the safety. Bizarre.

Don????

(Oh, I tried pushing on the plunger from the bottom of the slide - it moved roughly, not smoothly, but it wasn't obviously stuck, and I don't see how it could possibly be in there twisted, not enough room.)




Added later... With slide on frame, pressing on firing in, it moves very smoothly. Without changing anything else, I insert a magazine, and press on firing pin, and it's either very rough, or bound up. So if I put in the new spring, plunger, and safety, maybe one of those will eliminate the problem. Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[donk52]

That movement of the safety is normal, the way you are doing it. You are forcing the safety over the ejector lever with a magazine in and no slide stop. With the gun, assembled the slide would never go that far forward, not a problem.
Best wait till you get the parts and you get back from India... Are you bringing your Howdah pistol?

 

[mikemyers]

Will do - packages should start arriving in the next day or so.

My "Howdah pistol"? If you mean this guy, it's there waiting for me....

It's full of coins, and also I put two 1.5 pound wrist weights on my right wrist. I usually have to bend the sights a little until they look normal again, and the squishy trigger is great for learning how to keep the gun centered with a terrible trigger.

I go across the room, and aim out the window. Nobody has yet noticed me. Very quiet, too!

 

[mikemyers]

Don, on a more serious note, Numrich did have the safety, but not the plunger and spring. Those last two parts never came out of my safety last time I removed the safety, but how am I going to remove them on purpose?

Also, in the Bullseye forum, they're suggesting I just do what others have done, when the sight is out of the way, remove the plunger and spring and the gun will still work perfectly normally, except it will fire even with the magazine out. They say others have done this. I guess if you agree, that can be a final plan if nothing else works.

 

[donk52]

Leave the safety spring and plunger they should be fine, never heard of anyone needing those unless they lost them. I would leave the -ejector lever plunger- and spring out for now and test the gun and go from there.

 

[mikemyers]

Slight problem there, it's a new safety, and it doesn't come with the spring and plunger. I don't trust the old one, because the other guy filed something on it.

Sure, I will tap the sights back in, but will leave those parts out. The gun should fire fine. I need to load up some more ammo - all I have is my one remaining box of factory ammo. For the most part, I'll shoot what I load, but would like to buy one or two new boxes of factory ammo.

This gun feels "free-er" than my own 52. My gun feels like it has thick grease around the trigger area - it works fine, but it's not "free".

 

[mikemyers]

A summary of what we did, in what order, what worked, and what didn't work, as of the end of March. Unless new parts arrive in the next few days, this needs to be put on hold for a while.....

==========================

Model 52 – trying to fix problem of not firing quite often

March 15, posted about the problem.

First thoughts were to check for gunk in the firing pin tunnel. Don had me checking the firing pin spring tension for resistance.

High primers were mentioned, but I didn’t have any. Warning was given to me to stay away from WD-40 for flushing out the gun.

Don was asking if pressign on the firing pin was met with resistance. It did, felt like pushing a rod through gravel. Didn’t realize it at the time, but I wish I had removed the magazine and tried again.

So, the next project was to remove the firing pin. Walter O suggested using a pair of hemostats to hold the firing pin fully extended.

Then dave1918a2 suggested doing all this work inside a plastic cooking bag for cooking turkeys, so no parts could get lost.

March 16, I posted a video I found on how to disassemble/reassemble the Model 52.

March 17, Don posted a video of how to remove the backstrap. Very helpful.

March 17, Don posted a video he made of how to remove the safety. Again, very helpful!

March 18, we agreed the firing pin was not likely the culprit.

March 18, Don reminded us that it is NOT a good idea to swap parts between guns, trying to find which part was bad. For some parts it’s not a problem, but others are mated at the factory.

March 19, discussions on how to get the Safety all the way out of the slide.

March 19, reminder from Don to use minimal oil when re-assembling.

March 19, Don wants me to remove the hammer and related parts to check for things he was concerned about.

March 21, 29aholic brings up a question of the drill-and-tap for the holes in the sight were done properly. Leads to finding that there were burrs at the bottom of those holes, and the set screws in the holes were dragging across the firing pin spring.

March 21, tried “pencil test”; worked great.

March 25, new Mainspring arrived, and we determined the mainspring in the gun was not as strong as it should be. Was this the culprit?

March 26, nope, gun still has same problem.

March 26, back to checking if firing pin is moving far enough. Yes.

March 27, I noticed that the problem happens only when the magazine is in place.

March27, Don is coming up with idea that the culprit is the magazine disconnect. The plunger is likely interfering with the firing pin spring.

March 28, response #194, don describes exactly what he thinks is happening, and why.

March 28 don wants me to push the rear sight off to the right side far enough to remove the spring and plunger for the magazine disconnect.

March 30, testing will end until I return from my trip. By then I should have new parts arriving from Numrich. Will first remove the disconnect plunger and spring, reassemble gun, and test. It hopefully will work fine, but it will fire even without the magazine in place. Then I’ll clean out that opening, and try to re-assemble with a new plunger and spring. Hopefully the gun will then be FIXED.

 

[mikemyers]

I removed the small screw from the top of the rear sight.

With the slide in my plastic turkey bag, I slowly moved the sight to the side opposite the safety lever.

Turning the slide over, the spring dropped out. I then pushed the plunger out, and took a series of photos of it. Don, do these photos show what you need to see?

 

[mikemyers]

Four more images:

If you need a better photo of something, please let me know.

 

[mikemyers]

I can leave the gun apart, or assemble it without these parts to test it, or wait for the new plunger to arrive. The first photo looks to me like something broke off.

I think we've decided that if I re-assemble it without these parts, everything will work again as normal, except that the gun could then be fired without a magazine in the gun, something I don't ever see happening.

 

[donk52]

i would test the gun without the plunger and spring just to eliminate one possible problem.

 

[mikemyers]

Is it safe to take the assembled gun, just the way it is now, with the sight moved to the right, and fire off whatever number of shots we need to confirm it is working properly? Is 10 shots enough? 15? 25?

I'd like to leave the sight just the way it is, as everything is lined up perfectly to install the replacement parts.

 

[mikemyers]

While the gun was apart, I figured I would take photos from each side of "the hole" you were asking about, Don. I guess others have it too, so it's not unusual (I think), but here's a better view of it, from top, and from bottom.

Anyone know what part of the slide is supposed to keep the plunger from rotating, which allows it to interfere with the firing pin spring?

Also, as was predicted, the gun dry-fires very nicely now with no magazine present in the gun. I'll see if I can try it out in the morning.

 

[mikemyers]

Finally, if this is what my disconnect plunger is supposed to lock like (from Numrich), maybe I've got the wrong part in my gun?

 

[donk52]

Looks like the right part but kind of gritty looking. It needs to slide freely in the slot.

 

[mikemyers]

Status update:

Good news - got to the range this morning, and of the 15 or so rounds I fired, there were no light-strikes other than one round which I think I had previously fired.

Something else to fix - the rounds didn't load so nicely from the magazine. I guess I need to use my own magazine, and clean the gun completely, including the feed ramp.

So, tentatively, we found and corrected the worst problem on the gun.

(I also got a new Firing Pin, and a new Safety, they might get installed as well, but only one at a time.)


More good news, my parts from Numrich arrived today. Will post photos below. Don, any special instructions when installing the new parts?

 

[donk52]

I would break any sharp edges on that plunger. It has to move up and down smoothly.