kenh999
Member
Just saw this a few mins ago.
Trigger revamp on Smith & Wesson M&P pistols
Anyone have more info about this?
Trigger revamp on Smith & Wesson M&P pistols
Anyone have more info about this?
S&W Revamps M&P Triggers - Any more info?
- Thread starter kenh999
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mafbloggerdanny
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I believe the only difference in the Pro series is they have a more smoothly machined sear, so your trigger pulls will be smoother, more consistent and lighter, but I don't know how much lighter. But it's still a hinged trigger and still not as nice as Apex parts.
This photo below is from 2013, so it does not apply to the current article, but it just demonstrates for you the differences in contours of different sears.
As you're pulling the trigger, the trigger bar is riding along that sear, pushing it down until it releases the striker, so the smoother and more gradual that contour, the smoother your trigger pull feels. The old style has these really dramatic ramps, then flatten out, that causes the shooter to feel like they "hit a wall" in their trigger pull.
This photo below is from 2013, so it does not apply to the current article, but it just demonstrates for you the differences in contours of different sears.
As you're pulling the trigger, the trigger bar is riding along that sear, pushing it down until it releases the striker, so the smoother and more gradual that contour, the smoother your trigger pull feels. The old style has these really dramatic ramps, then flatten out, that causes the shooter to feel like they "hit a wall" in their trigger pull.
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bulldogman
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I've read plenty of complaints about the pro series trigger not meeting expectations. The article didn't get into any specifics so I'll believe it when I feel it. Is this going to be a rolling upgrade where your handgun has half the upgrades but not all of them and the only way to find out if it has the upgrades is to spend your hard earned cash only to find out there is very little improvement?
If they really want to improve things it's time to get rid of the hinged trigger which many blame for the mushy feel.
If they really want to improve things it's time to get rid of the hinged trigger which many blame for the mushy feel.
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The sear is not the only issue addressed. Other improvements in the trigger pull include a change to the trigger bar (look for the "H" stamp), and the new slide lock, which has the "bump" which contributes to a MUCH more noticeable re-set.
All of these improvements have been going into the LE SKUs 151215 (9mm) and 151213 (.40) for many, many months now.
All of these improvements have been going into the LE SKUs 151215 (9mm) and 151213 (.40) for many, many months now.
bulldogman
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Shawn, as you mention these changes have been going on for some time now so it would be nice to know if they are planning on additional changes in the future, unfortunately the article doesn't get into anything specific other than mentioning the Pro.
kozmic
Member
I wonder if this trigger change over is responsible for the 3 mag rebate in an effort to clear out "old" models from dealer shelves?
I took advantage of the rebate and bought a FS 9mm knowing that I would do some sort of Apex trigger rework.
I took advantage of the rebate and bought a FS 9mm knowing that I would do some sort of Apex trigger rework.
Ofc.JL
Member
There you go, hokiefyd. Just what I have been trying to tell everyone. Some time in mid 2013, IIRC, S&W started putting in what they term the "Pro" sear and the "H" series trigger/ slide stop parts. We have started calling this the "H" series upgrade, just as a reference. "H" series guns (9 & 40) have a much improved trigger pull and sear release.
I have been trying to tell everyone that has a newer "H" series pistol to shoot it some first, BEFORE they run out and immediately replace all the fire control parts w/ aftermarket parts. Can you improve an M&P trigger? Sure, if you know how and want to spend the money(although I carry and use a 2009 .40FS w/ an original trigger and it is just fine, as is.). But the new "H" series trigger is just about as nice as a trigger can get in an M&P. I question the validity of really needing to change anything on an "H" series gun. Of course, a person can do what he wants w/ his property. I just wish you people w/ "H" series guns try them first. Always, of course, IMHO.
Ofc. JL
I have been trying to tell everyone that has a newer "H" series pistol to shoot it some first, BEFORE they run out and immediately replace all the fire control parts w/ aftermarket parts. Can you improve an M&P trigger? Sure, if you know how and want to spend the money(although I carry and use a 2009 .40FS w/ an original trigger and it is just fine, as is.). But the new "H" series trigger is just about as nice as a trigger can get in an M&P. I question the validity of really needing to change anything on an "H" series gun. Of course, a person can do what he wants w/ his property. I just wish you people w/ "H" series guns try them first. Always, of course, IMHO.
Ofc. JL
OP
kenh999
Member
Very informative thread for me that brings up 3 questions.
1. I bought a new 9 compact mid-Dec. 2014. Should this gun have the "H" features described above? How can I verify same?
2. If I am buying a new 9FS can I be sure than any variant (safety, no safety, etc.) will be the "H" series?
3. Same as #2, but a used 9FS? Could I tell from a model #?
1. I bought a new 9 compact mid-Dec. 2014. Should this gun have the "H" features described above? How can I verify same?
2. If I am buying a new 9FS can I be sure than any variant (safety, no safety, etc.) will be the "H" series?
3. Same as #2, but a used 9FS? Could I tell from a model #?
The parts are very easy to discern with a simple field strip.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/338516-current-production-s-w-m-ps-update.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/338516-current-production-s-w-m-ps-update.html
Ofc.JL
Member
Lock pistol open. Drop mag. Using a small flashlight, look down into mag well from ejection port. Find trigger bar(Upper part of the right side of the mag well). Find front forward corner of trigger bar and look for a small letter "H" stamped in the trigger bar. If you see the letter "H", that means the gun has the trigger and sear upgrades, and you are good to go. If you see nothing, or the trigger bar has an "S" instead(not common), it is an older gun w/o the trigger upgrades. Easy-cheesy check. Most Gun shops will not understand what you are looking for or at, and unless they ask, I just keep quite, as 9 times out of 10, they haven't a clue. Typical(Rolls eyes)!
Now, here is the kicker, so to speak. If the pistol you are looking at is used, and the price is right, don't discount that pistol as no good, because you can make an older M&P into a great pistol w/ some aftermarket parts improvements. The only real critical thing to worry about is the sear spring size, and S&W made sure that they changed that to the bigger sear spring early in M&P production. That can still be addressed w/ new parts or shipping the Pistol back to S&W for the newer sear spring/ sear spring housing. A person can call and if they get the right customer service person, a serial number check should reveal if you have a later, larger sear spring housing. So there you go. If you do buy an older 9mm and it won't hit the side of a Barn, due to accuracy issues, even after all your upgrades, then contact S&W for a return to have a barrel refit. They will, no problem.
Have fun, and be safe. Ofc.JL
Now, here is the kicker, so to speak. If the pistol you are looking at is used, and the price is right, don't discount that pistol as no good, because you can make an older M&P into a great pistol w/ some aftermarket parts improvements. The only real critical thing to worry about is the sear spring size, and S&W made sure that they changed that to the bigger sear spring early in M&P production. That can still be addressed w/ new parts or shipping the Pistol back to S&W for the newer sear spring/ sear spring housing. A person can call and if they get the right customer service person, a serial number check should reveal if you have a later, larger sear spring housing. So there you go. If you do buy an older 9mm and it won't hit the side of a Barn, due to accuracy issues, even after all your upgrades, then contact S&W for a return to have a barrel refit. They will, no problem.
Have fun, and be safe. Ofc.JL
OP
kenh999
Member
Thanks!
My 9c is an "H" model.
The trigger is a consistent 7-7.5 lbs. using a Wheeler analog pull guage. Plus, the reset is what I'd have to call 'mushy.' More of a bump really. ~700-800 rounds thru it.
Is S&W's 'improved' trigger that the article alludes to just the "H" features previously mentioned here? If so, then it seems I should assume that a new 9FS trigger would be like my 9c's?
I've rented and shot a few other pistols (Walther PPQ, HK P30) and felt what a better trigger is like. I want a smooth ~5 - 5.5 lbs with a better reset and less travel. Seems like an M&P w/Apex kit is required to reach that goal or buy a different pistol with a better stock trigger.
Decisions....decisions...
My 9c is an "H" model.
The trigger is a consistent 7-7.5 lbs. using a Wheeler analog pull guage. Plus, the reset is what I'd have to call 'mushy.' More of a bump really. ~700-800 rounds thru it.
Is S&W's 'improved' trigger that the article alludes to just the "H" features previously mentioned here? If so, then it seems I should assume that a new 9FS trigger would be like my 9c's?
I've rented and shot a few other pistols (Walther PPQ, HK P30) and felt what a better trigger is like. I want a smooth ~5 - 5.5 lbs with a better reset and less travel. Seems like an M&P w/Apex kit is required to reach that goal or buy a different pistol with a better stock trigger.
Decisions....decisions...
Going just on your description, it sounds like your gun is different from mine. Does yours have the "bump" on the right side of the slide stop lever to improve the reset feel? I would describe the reset on my May 2014 M&P 9 as more than just a small bump. It won't wake you up from a coma like a Glock's will, but it's certainly there. In fact, I think it's more pronounced than my Shield's reset. The M&P 9 trigger has very little over-travel as well...much better than my Shield in that regard.
I'm sure the Apex Forward Set Sear kit will give you what you're looking for. But it also sounds like your trigger may be a little mushier than some. What is the build date on yours?
Ofc.JL
Member
Well, I have found 1 or 2 newer "H" series M&P's that have the new trigger system that still didn't have much of a "snappier" reset. Has to do with build tolerances when gun was put together. While I can fix it, of course I have to have the gun on my bench. Clean everything in the trigger area out and lube w/ something light like CLP, and try reset again. If you still have really mushy resets, call S&W for a return. They will fix it.
Also, go to Hilton Yam's sight, "Modern Service Weapons" and do a search on M&P trigger upgrades. He really illustrates well what S&W did to improve the M&P trigger.
Here is one more thing; The trigger reset on a M&P 9 or .40 is not as pronounced as say a Glock. It is more akin to the reset of a correctly set up 1911. It's there and it does go "tick", but it's not like Glock's very distinct "clack". As long as the trigger does reset to where you can feel it and hear it, however lightly, your Good to Go. If the gun is new, shoot several hundred rounds thru it, clean it and check again, I think you will find the reset much better. Trust me, you will like that M&P. They are one of the best pistol platforms I have seen 'lo these many years, currently on the market.
Also, go to Hilton Yam's sight, "Modern Service Weapons" and do a search on M&P trigger upgrades. He really illustrates well what S&W did to improve the M&P trigger.
Here is one more thing; The trigger reset on a M&P 9 or .40 is not as pronounced as say a Glock. It is more akin to the reset of a correctly set up 1911. It's there and it does go "tick", but it's not like Glock's very distinct "clack". As long as the trigger does reset to where you can feel it and hear it, however lightly, your Good to Go. If the gun is new, shoot several hundred rounds thru it, clean it and check again, I think you will find the reset much better. Trust me, you will like that M&P. They are one of the best pistol platforms I have seen 'lo these many years, currently on the market.
Ofc.JL
Member
Opps! I missed the "800 rds thru it". My bad. Clean it really well, paying attention to the sear-trigger bar interface area. Lube w/ something light, like I said.
Rastoff
US Veteran
What is different about the Shield trigger? Doesn't it use the same trigger as all the other M&P guns?
What is different about the "H" trigger bar?
I can see the difference in the sears, but the rest looks the same to me. Of course they did update the slide stop, but that has nothing to do with the trigger bar.
What is different about the "H" trigger bar?
I can see the difference in the sears, but the rest looks the same to me. Of course they did update the slide stop, but that has nothing to do with the trigger bar.
bulldogman
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Not sure about the Shield trigger but from what I saw on another web site that has side by side pictures with the "H" and "S" trigger bars, the the loop on the H trigger bar has a more aggressive angle and is taller than the S bar. The trigger safety angle is different between the two, the H bar has a 1 stamped on the trigger and the S bar has a 2 stamped on the trigger.
In addition, the newer Apex USB's are a different profile to work with the newer H bar.
In addition, the newer Apex USB's are a different profile to work with the newer H bar.
My M&P40C has a born on date of July 2013 & has the "H" on the trigger bar. My full size M&P40 is about 5 years older & the trigger is notably different with no reset as opposed to the slight reset on my C. Since I bought my full size used out of police service the trigger bar is well worn but I had to polish the one on my compact to get rid of a little grittiness. Other than that the trigger on the compact is fine for defensive carry as it is out of the box except for that slight grittiness I had which is gone now. If I were to get into competitive shooting I'd definitely get Apex parts.
