S&W Serial Number Wackiness

[kscharlie]

We all know that S&W did not bother to ship firearms in serial number order. But this one takes the cake.
1. Serial numbers S103000 - S139999 issued 1954 - 1955
2. My 5-screw .45 Model 1955 serial # S130822
3. Top sideplate screw eliminated in 1956
4. Model marking begins 1957
5. Just found out my 5-screw, non model marked, 1955 serial # shipped in March 1959.

Apparently, the Model 1955 (along with the early Model 25) was not a particularly good seller for S&W. I suppose I could now say that I have a post 4-screw 5-screw. This N frame must have been really well hidden way in the back of the bin.

 

[ars1876]

My letter states my pre Mdl 25,ser# 143529, shipped Sept 22 1955. The book says production of these started in march 1955 at about ser # 150000.

 

[azmick]

We gun owners are a strange bunch, 5 inch and longer barreled revolvers were the sought after guns for shooting for many years. The 4 inch guns sat for a while as did 4
.45s and .44 spcls after the 44 magnum was introduced. There was a time after a movie came out that 4 inch 44 magnums were having barrels swapped out for 6 inch barrels because demand was high for the longer examples. The 3 1/2 inch .357s were dropped in favor of the 4s,,, demand, supply, all based on consumer demand. S&W is not the only one either. I picked up a NIB Springfield M1A that was, buy the serial number, over 10 years old. It does not have the features in demand and bought at a nice discount. It's capitalism, nothing more.

 

[Art Doc]

A much discussed topic. Guns obviously set in inventory before shipping and some set for a lot longer. Could have been slow sales, could have have just been one item in the back of the locker. Who knows? I have an HD 38/44 with a serial that suggests 1956 but the letter says 1960. I have seen worse than that. It happened.

 

[Krogen]

I have to

Serial, as in serial number, means "in sequence." As we all know S&W's serial numbers are anything but in sequence!

Perhaps they should have been termed UQRIDNs (Unique Quasi-Random ID Numbers) instead!

 

[Doc44]

The frames are numbered in sequence. The manufacturing process begins the mixing process and build orders (based on marketing projections) for a particular model results in further "mixing".

Bill

 

[pd1964]

My 4 screw, right hand threaded extractor rod M27 no dash everything suggesting 1959 manufactured shipped April 1962.

 

[Doug M.]

I have an M58 I bought new in the late 70s that has an approximately 1964 serial #.

 

[JP@AK]

But the one that wins the prize is .32-20 Hand Ejector, serial number 141611 that shipped in 1965. These went out of production c. 1929!!!

 

[Absalom]

But let's not get carried away.

Statements like "S&W didn't ship in serial order" are so general that they are wrong. In the vast majority of cases, if you assume that a lower serial shipped before a higher, you're going to be right, and with millions shipped, even frequent exceptions don't invalidate that.

Since S&W did quite a bit of production and shipping in batches, the closer two serials are together, the better the chance that the sequence is out of order. But overall, it's neglegible.

Finally, late shippers are different from mixed-up serial numbers. Guns get held back in quality control and re-cycled after being fixed, and then ship out of sequence. That's inevitable since at that point you can't assign a new serial number, especially in the earlier years with so many components being number-stamped. Many examples that spark these discussions about the supposedly random serial order likely fall into this category.

I have an M58 I bought new in the late 70s that has an approximately 1964 serial #.

Unless you lettered it, this may well have shipped in a timely manner. There are a lot of "new old stock" guns out there that don't make it off the distributor/wholesaler level for years before being sold to a retail customer.

 

[kscharlie]

The main point of my OP was to reinforce the notion that not everything related to S&W is in the order that we think it should be, particularly as it relates to serial numbers. While the SCSW is a truly wonderful and invaluable resource, we must remember that we cannot assume it covers every possibility 100% of the time.

This particular example seems to me to be much more "striking" than, say, a 1905 M&P 4th change being shipped 10 years later than we think it should. After all, a 4th change is a 4th change (mostly). But I guess really a marked Mod 25 is no different than a Model 1955 either (other than the lack of the 5th screw).

The thing to remember is, while "the book" is great, it cannot and does not cover every nuance and possibility of all things S&W. This is one thing that makes our hobby so darned interesting. If you think you know it all, just stick around and you will learn something new.

 

[Art Doc]

My 58 is 3,300 after first one in 1964 but letters as shipped 4/68. My first one was like 5-6 years after what serial suggested. Slow sellers.

 

[Toyman]

I have Terriers
55601 shipped July 1950 improved I frame coil spring
56847 shipped September 1950 improved I frame coil spring
57210 shipped October 1950 pre war style leaf spring !
This frame must have been lurking at the bottom of the frame bin

 

[JP@AK]

Statements like "S&W didn't ship in serial order" are so general that they are wrong.

But if you said, "S&W did not intentionally ship guns in serial order" you would be correct. Models were pulled from the shelf in the vault as orders came in. They were packaged and sent out through the shipping/receiving department without regard to serial number sequence.

 

[tt66]

I recently sold a Model 40 marked Centennial. It had the upper side plate screw which was deleted in '55 but it was marked Model 40 which began in '57. It was in the 209** serial range.

Tim

 

[Absalom]

The classic example frequently discussed here of true serial randomness is the Model 1896. The 15,000 or so serialed frames were all made in 1896/97, and the guns then assembled and shipped over the next several years until superseded by the Model 1903. I seem to remember some claim that they actually shipped higher serials first to create the illusion of higher sales, although I don't recall the source. The record does not appear to support that. I have letters for 2324 and 11057 which shipped within six months of each other in 1899/1900.

Generally, the fewer guns built, the higher the probability of noticable randomness. So guns like the OP's, or the HD, which were produced in statistically insignificant numbers compared to the millions of the .38 M&P, have a much higher potential to sit on the shelf for a while and be grabbed out of sequence.