S&W Victory Australian issue new baby

[Docneeley]

I just acquired the nicest Victory I've seen. It is an Australian issue (lend lease?) revolver. Looks almost unused. The serial number is V470820. Any idea of DOM? Here's a couple photos. Enjoy and thanks if you can help with the date.

 

[DCWilson]

Probably 1943/44.

The FTR stamp stands for Factory Thorough Refurbish, which indicates the gun got a rebuild in Australia in -- can't recall -- mid-'50s, maybe. One of the Vic specialists will know.

 

[Docneeley]

Great info, thanks. So many stamps to track. I got this with a Webley, a 1892 Lebel and a Steyr 1911. All fun guns to me.

 

[Texas Star]

Doc-

I can't quite make out the stamp on the right side of the frame, but where it has a number by the Broad Arrow and the FTR and MA (Munitions Australia) stamp is a number that's the date when it was refurbished. Most were within a few years after the Korean War ended. Typically, this is from 53-55.

If the stocks are original to this gun, it probably had a blued finish, which was used until April, 1942, after which the guns were shipped with a Midnight Black finish, similar to Parkerizing. Those later guns had smooth walnut grips, the earlier ones like yours being checkered with S&W silver medallions. The arsenal may have mixed up grips from different guns.

Please post pics of the Webley and the Mlle. 92 Lebel. I'd love to see them. What Mark is the Webley, if a government gun?

 

[Docneeley]

Thanks, it says '55'. The individual I got these from collects military guns and will bring me more to test my will power.
I'll post the Webley and the Lebel tomorrow. The Webley has a tankers holster with it which I find cool.

 

[DWalt]

That one was likely from very late in 1943, and at that time would originally have been shipped in Parkerized finish with smooth wood grip panels. I would imagine it has been re-Parkerized and the grips replaced during refurbish. The grips alone are worth some bucks.

 

[opoefc]

As DWalt says, the gun was never blue, it was shipped with the " Midnight Black" (aka: Sand Blast Blue") in Dec. 1943, with smooth walnut stocks . The current finish, a darker grey, was applied by the Australian arsenal in 1955, when they repaired most of their remaining Victory Models. One nice thing about these Australian rebuilds is that they stayed with their original .38S&W (38/200) caliber and did not get the post WW2 cylinder rebore to chamber .38Specials that many surplus Lend Lease revolvers suffered at the hands of surplus gun dealers in the early post war gun import period. Ed.

 

[DWalt]

Regarding the finish, by late 1941, the pre-war civilian blued finish was replaced by a sandblast (so-called brush blue) blued finish to speed up production. That lasted only a few months, and was replaced by a phosphate finish (Parkerizing) by early-mid 1942 which was not a bluing at all, and speeded up production even more. Virtually all US WWII small arms were given a phosphate finish - M1, M1 Carbine, M1911A1 .45, BAR, M1903A3, etc., as wartime production needs would not allow bluing. The British speeded up things even more, and just spray painted much of their small arms production.

 

[2152hq]

The 'FTR/MA 55' (Factory Through Repair/Lithgow Arsenal 1955) should be stamped 'through' the existing parkerized finish,,stamped after all the rebuild & refinish work was completed.

The 'D^D' (Australian Defense Dept Ownership) and the simple BroadArrow '^' mark of the original Brit purchase on the side and the bottom of the frame should be parkerized over as they were applied when the revolver was first purchased and issued in the 40's.

The small Lithgow Arsenal inspectors mark in the lower left of the cluster IIRC should also be a fresh stamp through the parkerized finish, done to indicate inspection and acceptance of the FTR work.

Post 1986 USA Importers mark on the left side of the frame under the cylinder,,looks like VEGA, in Sac. CA. They imported a lot of these in the 90's.

Nice looking revolver,,,& grips.

 

[Docneeley]

Texas Star, here are the photo's of the Webley and the Lebel. Enjoy!

 

[Retired W4]

It has been apparent the Australian FTR program was a huge success. The people involved were obviously highly motivated individuals, just like the ones I supported in RVN. Long, Long ago.

 

[Texas Star]

Doc-

Thanks! As you may know, your Webley is a Mark IV .38, probably marked War Finish.

 

[Docneeley]

It is a Mark IV as you mentioned and marked 'War finish'. 38 S&W. Really a fun bunch of guns.
Thanks to everyone for the great and educational input. The thing I really appreciate about this forum is that you get real, informative answers from knowlegeable people.

 

[DWalt]

The 'War Finish' is usually black paint.

 

[2152hq]

'War Finish' marked on a Webley refers to the metal polish or better,,the lack of it,, that was applied during that time.
Sort of the same rushed production the German weapons experienced as the War went on. No need for finely polished surfaces, the parts were used as-is right off the mills and shapers w/only de-burring operations in some cases. Anything to make shortcuts in production time.
They had to work,,they didn't have to look nice.

Webley marked them as such in hopes that the rough finished products w/their name on them did not damage their longtime tradition as an English commercial gunmaker. A very proud tradition.

They will be found in blued steel finish and w/the black enamel paint finish also.
I recently sold a 38 Webley 'War Finish' that was blued steel finish.

'Suncorite' was the trade name of the paint finish used.
Maybe other's were used too, I don't recall now.
Just about any small arm was finished with it as the war went on. Quick and cheap.

Commonly called a 'stoving finish' or just 'stoving'. Probably from the short oven bake/heating it went through to cure the finish once applied.
Many Brit guns were refinished with it over bluing and even Parkerizing.