avery53
Member
I think Smith needs to look at the quality they are putting into their revolvers to keep them going. We are paying high dollars for some pretty sad firearms today.
JMO avery
JMO avery
S&W Wheel Guns in the Future
- Thread starter Irn-Bru
- Start date
Ruger and Freedom Arms still make old-old-school single action wheel guns long after they were considered dinosaurs, there's still a market for those so I think DA revolvers will be around in the future, BUT I think they'll be along the lines of the LCR, Bodyguard 38, and the Chiappa, not the "good" ones like we look for today. Like someone said, new materials and weird Chiappa-like designs will prevail (though I think I just contradicted myself, oh well).
oldnotdead
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Just bought a new 642 a month ago,no lock. Factory fresh.
Amp
Member
I will keep my revolvers and even acquire more of them.
Just not warming up to the new plastic pistols out there.
Just not warming up to the new plastic pistols out there.
M3Stuart
Member
According to this ATF report, the ratio of Semi-Autos to Revolvers Manufactured in the U.S. is about 6 to 1. This report only totals to less than 7 million - of the 11 or 12 million guns sold in the U.S. each year. My educated guess would be that the imported SA to Revolver ratio is more like 10 to 1 (e.g. Glock vs. Taurus).
https://www.atf.gov/files/statistic...inal-firearms-manufacturing-export-report.pdf
Looking at these figures, my guess would be that this ratio will INCREASE over time. That is; the number of semi-auto types will increase while the number, and ratio, of revolvers will decrease.
Expanding on this theme; I think Ruger will continue to increase both the quantity and variety of revolvers produced while S&W will add a model here and there - but mostly focus on making its existing normal 686's etc. into higher-profit "PC" guns, make more cheap airweights, add a few like the 66/69, adding .500's, 460's, etc...but won't put much focus on the 'old' forged frames with one-piece barrels. The volume just isn't there for them.
IMHO; I think S&W is just reacting to the market and part of their market research is probably telling them that people don't want to pay the price (or buy a high enough volume for what) it would cost to make, say 'regular' 686's, profitable for them.
https://www.atf.gov/files/statistic...inal-firearms-manufacturing-export-report.pdf
Looking at these figures, my guess would be that this ratio will INCREASE over time. That is; the number of semi-auto types will increase while the number, and ratio, of revolvers will decrease.
Expanding on this theme; I think Ruger will continue to increase both the quantity and variety of revolvers produced while S&W will add a model here and there - but mostly focus on making its existing normal 686's etc. into higher-profit "PC" guns, make more cheap airweights, add a few like the 66/69, adding .500's, 460's, etc...but won't put much focus on the 'old' forged frames with one-piece barrels. The volume just isn't there for them.
IMHO; I think S&W is just reacting to the market and part of their market research is probably telling them that people don't want to pay the price (or buy a high enough volume for what) it would cost to make, say 'regular' 686's, profitable for them.
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mc5aw
Member
S&W has the majority of revolver bases covered, so with the exception of a few new models here and there, the line-up remains stable. The death knell for revolvers has been sounded for years, and the market is still strong ... add in Ruger, Charter Arms, & Taurus, and there is quite a lot in the revolver world to choose from and enjoy.
As to the OP's assertion about customers paying $1K for a "hand made" S&W, keep dreaming. "Hand made" isn't in the manufacturing dictionary any longer. The best you will get is a tuned PC gun for top dollar, and those aren't too bad. The Miculek and Thunder Ranch .45s are excellent handguns for the money.
As to the OP's assertion about customers paying $1K for a "hand made" S&W, keep dreaming. "Hand made" isn't in the manufacturing dictionary any longer. The best you will get is a tuned PC gun for top dollar, and those aren't too bad. The Miculek and Thunder Ranch .45s are excellent handguns for the money.
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I read an article about 20 years ago that predicted that revolvers will remain popular in two categories only: (1) very small, such as the J frame, for personal defense; and, (2) large for hunting.
The author noted that the semi-automatic pistol had all but replaced the "four-inch, medium frame, 38/.357" revolver for defense.
It seems that in the last two years, the hand guns that sell can be lumped into three broad categories, consisting of the two mentioned previously, with the third being the semi-auto pistols for defense, whether they be small for concealed carry or duty size for defense.
Personally, it is a regrettable period as I go back to learning on the 22 revolver, graduating up to larger revolvers, then getting a 1911. That is still not a bad way to learn.
The author noted that the semi-automatic pistol had all but replaced the "four-inch, medium frame, 38/.357" revolver for defense.
It seems that in the last two years, the hand guns that sell can be lumped into three broad categories, consisting of the two mentioned previously, with the third being the semi-auto pistols for defense, whether they be small for concealed carry or duty size for defense.
Personally, it is a regrettable period as I go back to learning on the 22 revolver, graduating up to larger revolvers, then getting a 1911. That is still not a bad way to learn.
We are paying high dollars for sad products all over the place. That does not make it ok it just points out how pathetic we have allowed our standards to drop.
BigBlueSix
Member
I am suddenly and completely in love with revolvers, especially Smiths. Being not quite 40, just getting into guns as a hobby in my 30's, I'm a late bloomer. But I have to believe there are other young people out there who appreciate the revolver for its asthetic and mechanical qualities, thus assuring some kind of future for them.
I only have revolvers now. I shoot better with them, love looking at them, shooting them and maintaining them. I couldn't hit the proverbial broadside of a barn with my 9mm. Hails of bullets are for rappers. I want five or six right on the spot. My revolvers allow of that.
Besides, carrying a 4" K frame forces me to dress better as without a blazer or suit coat, it's a no go so far as concealment is concerned.
My crystal ball is in the shop, so I can't say for sure... But I hope the future continues to be bright for the wheel gun.
I only have revolvers now. I shoot better with them, love looking at them, shooting them and maintaining them. I couldn't hit the proverbial broadside of a barn with my 9mm. Hails of bullets are for rappers. I want five or six right on the spot. My revolvers allow of that.
Besides, carrying a 4" K frame forces me to dress better as without a blazer or suit coat, it's a no go so far as concealment is concerned.
My crystal ball is in the shop, so I can't say for sure... But I hope the future continues to be bright for the wheel gun.
ridgewalker
Member
Well Saturday the action range is open for practice and I have been able to get to this recently. Naturally I am the only person shooting a revolver (my 627) usually. But you know what, I always get guys asking about my revolver and telling me how they want to get one. Last Saturday one guy said to me he thought revolvers were just so cool. To paraphrase Mark Twain, news of the revolvers death is greatly exagerated.
In regards to your other point, Yes S&W, make more revolvers without the IL. They have managed to make a good variety of J frame snubs with out the lock. I am hoping they expand that to the larger frames as well.
In regards to your other point, Yes S&W, make more revolvers without the IL. They have managed to make a good variety of J frame snubs with out the lock. I am hoping they expand that to the larger frames as well.
StickShift
Member
The days of medium frame revolvers as standard issue duty or personal defense guns are long gone, but that doesn't mean revolvers are a dead industry. Revolvers still shine as pocket guns for self defense, big bore hunting pistols, and easy-to-feed 22LR practice guns.
That being said, I firmly believe that even the medium frame 38/357 revolver has a future. Sure, they aren't standard bearers for self defense the days but they still sell in large numbers. It seems like most shooter's either have one or want one - much like 1911s and metal frame automatics like SIG Sauers or Beretta 92s. Even the most ardent tupperware shooters seem to have one or more of the above as range toys or special purpose guns. While the market is smaller, I can see S&W and Ruger making high quality revolvers in all sizes and styles for decades to come.
That being said, I firmly believe that even the medium frame 38/357 revolver has a future. Sure, they aren't standard bearers for self defense the days but they still sell in large numbers. It seems like most shooter's either have one or want one - much like 1911s and metal frame automatics like SIG Sauers or Beretta 92s. Even the most ardent tupperware shooters seem to have one or more of the above as range toys or special purpose guns. While the market is smaller, I can see S&W and Ruger making high quality revolvers in all sizes and styles for decades to come.
eTripper
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Essentially, the 'revolver' was 'declared dead' when the Lowe-marketed Borchardt-designed C93 pistol, hit the market in Europe. True, it changed the direction of handgun evolution, but the 'revolver' didn't go the way of the dinosaur. In fact, if anything it's more popular than ever! Strong, simple, versatile, and ergonomic are among all it's storied hallmarks. A popular choice for home defense, hunting, target-shooting, historical re-enactments, and cowboy action shooting venues. Sometimes, 'old school' is still the 'best vintage' for martial connoisseurs, who love shooting. I think the 'revolver platform' will be around, for as long as they are considered relevant. If you have any doubt, Uberti still makes a ton of cash on designs, that are well over a century old.
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muddocktor
Member
At the 2 ranges I belong to, I see a lot more plastic wonders than good steel revolvers nowadays. And the revolvers tend to be owned and shot by the older generation such as me. But, when I break out a 357 Mag or my 629, the younger guys tend to step back and go "Whoa" and watch a true high power mag blow fire downrange. And I've had several come over to check out my revolvers. Last time I went to the range there was a guy shooting a cheap hi-point plastic wonder next to me and I let him romp off a cylinder full of fairly stout 44 Mag and you should have seen the big grin on his face. I think he will make a convert to the revolver now. 
BTW, my Coonan 1911 also catches the younger crowd's eye too. Nothing like a 1911 style pistol shooting some full house 357 Mags downrange through big rings of fire and muzzle blast. It doesn't have the feel of a nice Smith revolver either but it does kind of bridge the gap between the 2.
BTW, my Coonan 1911 also catches the younger crowd's eye too. Nothing like a 1911 style pistol shooting some full house 357 Mags downrange through big rings of fire and muzzle blast. It doesn't have the feel of a nice Smith revolver either but it does kind of bridge the gap between the 2.
gtoppcop
Member
The 4-inch service type revolver is not in demand. The 2-inch J-Frames is still S&W's best seller (or so I'm told). I feel that there will be a resurgence of the the 4-inch guns.
I like it that S&W re-introduced a modern copy of the Combat Magnum. We'll see how it does. I think that if they brought out a STEEL 3-inch K-Frame, like the PC Model 67 or the Model 64/65 of yore, they would re-ignite the popularity of these guns.
In the meantime, I will continue to scarf up the "old" Model 10/13, 15/67, 19/66 and 64/65. All great guns.
With the "new" breed of .38 Special +P ammunition, the equation of a weak, or otherwise pathetic manstopper is a fable. A good controlled pair into the vitals of a felon is plenty good enough to stop the fight.
The Golden Saber +P is one of the best (and under-appreciated) .38 rounds there is.
In closing, I think the market in 20 years' time will be not too unlike what it is now.
I like it that S&W re-introduced a modern copy of the Combat Magnum. We'll see how it does. I think that if they brought out a STEEL 3-inch K-Frame, like the PC Model 67 or the Model 64/65 of yore, they would re-ignite the popularity of these guns.
In the meantime, I will continue to scarf up the "old" Model 10/13, 15/67, 19/66 and 64/65. All great guns.
With the "new" breed of .38 Special +P ammunition, the equation of a weak, or otherwise pathetic manstopper is a fable. A good controlled pair into the vitals of a felon is plenty good enough to stop the fight.
The Golden Saber +P is one of the best (and under-appreciated) .38 rounds there is.
In closing, I think the market in 20 years' time will be not too unlike what it is now.
Grant Cunningham touched on this very subject over on his blog after returning from SHOT Show 2015 SHOT Show 2015: What about the revolvers? | Revolvers, Shooting industry | GrantCunningham.com. He talks about the Korth Sky Marshal a bit, and it seems to have a few bugs that need to be worked out yet.
Most interesting, to me anyway, is that he mentions a conversation he had with Brent Turchi who runs production and leads the custom shop over at Colt. Brent seems to think that with their current machining techniques they could build a Python that would be mechanically as good as in years past. The catch? After having crunched the numbers, it would have to sell at around $3,000. Obviously, they could never sell enough at that price to cover the price of tooling and production. So it'll never happen. But Colt is also looking at a small-frame revolver design that could be viable in the marketplace. Obviously Colt needs to get their financial ducks in a row first. They are nowhere near out of the woods yet.
The point is that there is still enough interest in the revolver to keep design teams busy and the bean counters relatively happy. Ruger is bringing several new revolvers to market soon if they haven't already: the Match Champion with adjustable sights, the 9mm LCR, the 3" LCRx with adjustable sights to name a few off the top of my head. The revolver is hardly dead. The design just plain works. They can dress it up how ever they like, but there's really no need for manufactures to reinvent the wheel(gun).
Most interesting, to me anyway, is that he mentions a conversation he had with Brent Turchi who runs production and leads the custom shop over at Colt. Brent seems to think that with their current machining techniques they could build a Python that would be mechanically as good as in years past. The catch? After having crunched the numbers, it would have to sell at around $3,000. Obviously, they could never sell enough at that price to cover the price of tooling and production. So it'll never happen. But Colt is also looking at a small-frame revolver design that could be viable in the marketplace. Obviously Colt needs to get their financial ducks in a row first. They are nowhere near out of the woods yet.
The point is that there is still enough interest in the revolver to keep design teams busy and the bean counters relatively happy. Ruger is bringing several new revolvers to market soon if they haven't already: the Match Champion with adjustable sights, the 9mm LCR, the 3" LCRx with adjustable sights to name a few off the top of my head. The revolver is hardly dead. The design just plain works. They can dress it up how ever they like, but there's really no need for manufactures to reinvent the wheel(gun).
I don't think revolvers will ever die, or stop being produced, however I think the numbers may dwindle as the years go buy. For me the revolver is a GUN. When you pick up that steel and wood you know you have something special in your hand. Don't get me wrong I like my semi's also, but the feeling of gripping that wheel gun and opening the cylinder can't be matched by a Glock or any other semi.
100%! There is just something wonderful about a revolver. Yes, the flavor-of-the-month plastic fantastic will get the job done, quite well in fact. But I tend to think of them more as appliances. If they get bumped, scratched, dinged, what have you, it's no big deal. They are the Bic lighters of the handgun world. On the other hand, revolvers are like Grandpa's Zippo that he carried in Normandy. They both do the same job, but one is way more
I wish I new just one person outside of this forum that likes revolvers so we could talk guns.I can't find a single revolver in a gun shop in the last two years.Now either there is a buying frenzy ,and the revolvers are being bought before they hit the shelves,or it goes back to my opening statement.I can talk autos all day with people.Sad but true!
S&W should offer what ALL potential customers want. They only offer what few customers want.
I equate that to a restaurant that won't take orders and serve what they think is best. Some like what they get and stick around, most go elsewhere.
