SA vs. SA-DA safety

[Presque_Vu]

Just doing some thinking on the subject of semi-auto pistols, Keeping in mind that not touching the trigger is the safest, would a SA or SA/DA pistol be more safe to use for concealed carry? Pros and cons so far in my head..

SA pros:
light trigger
the trigger does nothing unless you manually cock the firearm first
SA cons:
light trigger(only a con if an idiot user places a finger on the trigger at the wrong time)
if dropped, the hammer can cock back enough to get a good enough force to strike the firing pin.

SA/DA Pros:
heavy trigger for the first shot ensuring little ability to accidentally hit the trigger and fire the weapon

Cons:
inconsistent trigger pressures
the trigger will always cock and fire the weapon

What is your opinion???

this is excluding a glock or other striker platformed handguns.

 

[tops]

I have used both and for me it is just getting used to one or the other. About 50 yrs. ago I had a P38 and I decided the 9mm cartridge wasn't any good but I liked the DA on the first shot. I didn't think the trigger changing after the first shot was a problem. I went to Colt and military 1911s and I cock it as I draw the same as a SA revolver. I don't think either really have any problems, it is just what you get used too. I never liked to carry a 1911 cocked and locked but that is probably just one of my crazy ideas and I have never had a problem cocking it as I draw. This info is probably worth what it costs. Larry

 

[Faulkner]

The cons of a SA/DA semi auto is why I got away from them. For target shooting at the range the transition from DA to SA might be okay, but for tactical or defense shooting I believe it's a waste of ammo and accuracy in a critical situation.

I'm convinced that a consistent trigger pull is a priority in a carry gun. DA only semi autos was an attempt at a remedy but the heavy trigger pull all the time can be problematic without a good deal of training. Frankly, I think striker fired weapons are the best alternative to SA semi autos. Personally, I don't have a problem with cocked and locked.

 

[Out West]

Personally I don't think there is one best solution. I own and use guns of all types. With practice any of the trigger/action styles can be mastered. For me, the gun I shoot the most is the gun I shoot the best - regardless of the make.

If I was starting over I'd pick the pistol that feels best in my hand, meets whatever concealment requirements I felt necessary and met my caliber/capacity requirements. Then I'd shoot the snot out of it. Practice, practice and practice. The limitations of any action type can be overcome with sufficient practice.

Out
West

 

[ViperGeek]

I think either SA or DAO is best for consistency during "go time". I carry a 1911 cocked 'n locked (rebuttal over safety concerns have caused lots of innocent ASCII characters to be spilled), and my wife carries a striker-fired DAO. I'm used to the ~4.5 lb. pull every time and she's used to the ~8 lb. pull every time.

We're far from experts, but IMHO and as others have said, get used to what you're carrying and you'll be fine ... and safe.

- Dave
_____________________________________________________________
In a world of compromise, some people don't. We carry Smith & Wesson.

 

[MP22]

I carry the Ruger P95 which is SA/DA. Love everything about it. Never had any problems. The trigger just takes getting used to.

 

[Yiogo]

I carry Mod 637-2 and shoot it double action at the range almost exclusively. I sometimes carry a semi auto pistol and it is only DA. I don't prefer the SA/DA option but I have some pistols that shoot SA/DA. I can deal with it. I like the consistency of DA. Yiogo

 

[cmort666]

Cocked and locked M1911 or BHP, or Glock 19 or Glock 22: It's all the same to me.

I no longer own a true double action auto. I've never seen one that had a D/A trigger pull that I liked. The last DA auto I owned was a French Walther PPK/S. I am thinking about getting a blued PPK in .380acp. I'm sure the trigger pull is no better, but on a gun that size, which I intend to pocket carry, the engagement range will be so close, that I won't have time to complain about the lousy trigger.

 

[Lineman73]

No DA/SA for me!

I do not own any DA/SA semi autos. I have tried a bunch of them and have never cared for the huge difference between the first shot and the second. I have 3 guns that I carry: a 5" Kimber Custom Stainless II .45ACP, with Crimson Trace laser grip, a 4" S&W M&P40 .40S&W with an apex hard sear and Trijicon night sights and a Ruger SR40c .40S&W with a Ghost trigger.

I freely admit that I am a trigger snob and must have a trigger in the neighborhood of 4 lbs to be happy with it. If it is too heavy, gunsmithing WILL happen!! If it can't be made to drop at 4 lbs, I get rid of it. SA/DA pistols do not fit into my program of self defense. I'm just sayin'......!!

 

[Presque_Vu]

I have used both and for me it is just getting used to one or the other. About 50 yrs. ago I had a P38 and I decided the 9mm cartridge wasn't any good but I liked the DA on the first shot. I didn't think the trigger changing after the first shot was a problem. I went to Colt and military 1911s and I cock it as I draw the same as a SA revolver. I don't think either really have any problems, it is just what you get used too. I never liked to carry a 1911 cocked and locked but that is probably just one of my crazy ideas and I have never had a problem cocking it as I draw. This info is probably worth what it costs. Larry

Thanks! What you said makes sense I suppose it's all about what you train with. Another question would be timing for drawing the pistol. If I'm concealing it at work (pizza delivery boy) and I decide to defend myself against a robber (would probably just give him the money and drive away but for arguments sake let's say I really want the tip money) would a SA with a hammer safety that has one chambered be more quick to fire off a round versus a DA/SA that doesn't have a safety? I suppose this would also go back to how much you train with the pistol, but in your experience what would you recommend?

 

[Presque_Vu]

I appreciate all of the feedback everyone! I've found myself leaning towards an SA only but it seems like most decently priced pistols that have a good dimension for concealed carry are either DA/SA or DA only, can someone point me in the direction of a reliable SA only pistol that would be good for concealment??

Someone had mentioned a striker fired SA only pistol..What would be the advantages and disadvantages to a striker for SA only versus a hammer? and how do you decock a striker fired SA only pistol?

 

[Out West]

can someone point me in the direction of a reliable SA only pistol that would be good for concealment??

There are more variations being made on the 1911 platform today than at anytime in it's 100+ year history. Take your pick: full size to mini; carbon to stainless or even polymer framed; single stack or double stack; the variations are almost endless.

Out
West

 

[tops]

You asked about a SA automatic and I don't know what to recommend but for a concealed DA only I would recommend a S&W BG 380. It has an inertia firing pin so the firing pin is not resting on the primer when the hammer is down. Since the firing pin is not resting on the primer and the gun is not cocked it is safe to have one in the barrel. It is a true DA with an exposed hammer and each time you pull the trigger the hammer rolls just like a revolver and it does not cock like a DA/SA auto. The hammer follows the slide back down and it cannot be cocked to shoot SA. By being a true DA if the cartridge doesn't fire just pull the trigger again. We bought some cheap steel cased shells and 2 out of the box didn't fire and instead of racking the slide for a fresh shell she just pulled the trigger again and both shells fired on the second strike. Larry

 

[Ohgoodgrief]

Having carried and using both in officer involved shootings, I personally favor the one that works best for you, the shooter. Early in my career, we carried DAO model 14 S&Ws. THat worked fine for me. Later, we carried Berettas or S&W model 39's, I carried a Beretta and can say that the DA/SA type firearm takes more practice to get consistent results. That said, I still carry my Model 6904 as well as striker fired pistols Ruger P-40 and Springfield XD 40's. Last night, I handled (but did not fire) my son's S&W DAO and found the long pull probably safer than SA but what a long pull it is...practice with whatever you choose

 

[Neumann]

An SA pistol is perfectly safe if carried cocked-and-locked. A 1911 has the additional factor of the grip safety, which locks the trigger. An SA pistol is NEVER carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber, because there's no way to lower the hammer safely. Consequently, there's no way the hammer rests on the firing pin where a blow can cause the weapon to discharge.

Most pistols have a positive firing pin block, actuated by the trigger, or in the case of some 1911 pistols, by the grip safety. Even if the pistol is dropped, it cannot discharge by the hammer or inertia of the firing pin. When carrying an SA pistol, you habitually check the status of the safety lever and put your thumb UNDER the hammer when holstering.

A DA/SA pistol has the added safety of carrying with the hammer down, requiring a long, heavy trigger pull for the first shot. These pistols usually have a positive hammer block, so that it cannot strike the firing pin unless the trigger is deliberately pulled, in addition to a firing pin block described above. A means to lower the hammer safely on a loaded chamber is provided. The archtypical DA/SA pistol is the SIG P2xx series. It is important to lower the hammer before holstering, and customary to place your thumb BEHIND the hammer in case the trigger gets caught on something. DA/SA pistols also have second-strike capability, which is nice to have but of little use in practice.

With Walther, CZ and early S&W DA/SA pistols, the decocking lever is also the firing pin block. If you lower the hammer then release the safety, the pistol can fire if dropped on the hammer, or if the hammer snags in your clothing.

A good compromise for concealed carry is a DAK (SIG) or LEM (H&K) trigger, which is double action with a long pull and mechanical leverage which keeps the trigger pull light (<6#). My preferred full-sized pistol is a SIG P220 DAK (.45 ACP).

Glock pistols (and others) have what they call DA action. It's actually SA, striker fired action from a mostly cocked position, without restrike capability. The trigger draws the cocked striker rearwards a short distance before releasing it. Think of a Glock as cocked-and-unlocked.

It is important to practice DA/SA starting with the hammer down. I devote at least half my practice alternating DA and SA in this manner. I'm an old hand with revolvers, so this is second nature, and a good habit for newcomers as well.

 

[Presque_Vu]

An SA pistol is perfectly safe if carried cocked-and-locked. A 1911 has the additional factor of the grip safety, which locks the trigger. An SA pistol is NEVER carried with the hammer down on a loaded chamber, because there's no way to lower the hammer safely. Consequently, there's no way the hammer rests on the firing pin where a blow can cause the weapon to discharge.

The grip safety seems like a nice feature. I'm really liking the taurus 1911 9mm, I've also found a holster by crossbreed called the supertuck deluxe with the J-clips and a belt seems like a nice setup for my purposes.