Sadly - Another .40 Shield Kaboom

[00stormbringer]

It is safe to say that a 100% Quality Control Record for mass produced products is a myth at best. A KB is always a possibility no matter which firearm or ammunition you use. It is only possible to better the odds by choosing companies with favorable track records. Even a careful reloader may chance upon a structurally deficient brass casing that is undetectable until the case ruptures from the pressure of ignition. I buy a lotto ticket every week and have never won to date, doesn't mean tomorrow won't be my lucky day. I have had squib loads that had to be tapped out the barrel with a wooden dowel, but never a week casing or powder over charge in my entire 30+ years of regular shooting. I worry more about lightning strikes down here in Florida then KB's!

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

While I don't want to dwell on the frustration of the difficult protracted process of trying to get S&W to examine my Shield, it has been exasperating. After shipping the Shield via FedEx and 2 months after S&W logged it in, I just received a letter from them that appears to be the same or similar to letters received by the other Shield kaboom owner's. I may include a photo of the letter later. For now, here is an excerpt: "We have recently reviewed a Smith & Wesson M – 40 Shield pistol, Serial Number HPJxxxx. After a thorough review, we have determined that the damage to this weapon was not the result of a defect in the materials or workmanship of the weapon." They then offered to sell me a new Shield for $334 "since they value me as a customer."

Sorry for the long beginning post. I look forward to your comments or questions and will attempt to respond as necessary.

S&W's reply remind me of a conversation I had with an adjuster several years ago concerning a property damage claim I was making involving my daughter. The adjuster after hemming and hawing and talking about deductions for this and that, KBB condition pre wreck and all the other BS while nickling and diming the property damage claim down inquired if there was also a BI (bodily injury) claim that would be pursued and I responded "Depends on how you adjust the property damage claim." He got the message, adjusted the property damage claim fairly and that was that.

 

[Tsb3]

don't chamber a round 100x and you pretty much won't have a kaboom. It really is that simple.

???? Could you elaborate on that statement? Who chambers a round 100x?

 

[Rastoff]

???? Could you elaborate on that statement? Who chambers a round 100x?

I know several. They feel it's necessary to unload their gun every day. Thus, when they load that same round later, they risk set back. Set back can cause an extreme pressure increase when fired.

 

[Cal_Abe]

Cosme17

I personally stay away from the cheap Wal-Mart value packs, they're cheap for a reason. Maybe they're professional reloads or maybe they are seconds. I dont know.

Sorry to jump in here like this. I thought these value packs were values from the manufacture. Your saying that I should be concerned with the 100 Rd winchester white box value I constantly purchase?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[Tsb3]

I know several. They feel it's necessary to unload their gun every day. Thus, when they load that same round later, they risk set back. Set back can cause an extreme pressure increase when fired.

I see, thank you.

 

[ginzo]

I venture to say any "cheap ammo" from walmart is new, not reloads.

I use WWB 165 value pack all the time. Never had an issue.
I may even try the Remington UMC 250 Value pack next time.

Cosme17

I personally stay away from the cheap Wal-Mart value packs, they're cheap for a reason. Maybe they're professional reloads or maybe they are seconds. I dont know.

Sorry to jump in here like this. I thought these value packs were values from the manufacture. Your saying that I should be concerned with the 100 Rd winchester white box value I constantly purchase?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[peterthefish]

Sorry to jump in here like this. I thought these value packs were values from the manufacture. Your saying that I should be concerned with the 100 Rd winchester white box value I constantly purchase?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

I hear a lot of bad mouthing of WWB, Remington UMC, etc.. I've chrono'd some and I'll tell you, the consistency would make most hand loaders, even those who try, blush.

 

[eldoradoplinker]

Mine didn't explode, but. . .

I purchased an M-40 Shield. At the range I was using low pressure target loads and on the seventh shot a catastrophic failure of the brass occurred. I tried a couple of additional shots and it occurred again on the tenth shot. Attached photos show the unusual sidewall failure. The primers appeared normal so I discount the overloaded round argument. I sent the weapon back to S&W, received the exact form letter. I fought with them a couple of weeks, so they dropped the price of a replacement by $100. I still wouldn't take it and made them send the weapon back. I'm suspect a future recall, but only time shall tell. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy another S&W again.

 

[AR-Getsome]

I purchased an M-40 Shield. At the range I was using low pressure target loads and on the seventh shot a catastrophic failure of the brass occurred. I tried a couple of additional shots and it occurred again on the tenth shot. Attached photos show the unusual sidewall failure. The primers appeared normal so I discount the overloaded round argument. I sent the weapon back to S&W, received the exact form letter. I fought with them a couple of weeks, so they dropped the price of a replacement by $100. I still wouldn't take it and made them send the weapon back. I'm suspect a future recall, but only time shall tell. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy another S&W again.

So.....Did your gun blow up or just ruptured casings? Were these reloads?

 

[Badquaker]

It would be interesting to see the non ruptured cases as well. If that is caused by being unsupported, than the non ruptured cases should show a large bulge. It almost looks like the web failed first and the case head was trying to separate.

 

[TTSH]

I purchased an M-40 Shield. At the range I was using low pressure target loads and on the seventh shot a catastrophic failure of the brass occurred. I tried a couple of additional shots and it occurred again on the tenth shot. Attached photos show the unusual sidewall failure. The primers appeared normal so I discount the overloaded round argument. I sent the weapon back to S&W, received the exact form letter. I fought with them a couple of weeks, so they dropped the price of a replacement by $100. I still wouldn't take it and made them send the weapon back. I'm suspect a future recall, but only time shall tell. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy another S&W again.

How old was that ammo?

 

[turbo38gn]

sounded like reloads from this other post, as well, the cases don't look new in the picture..

 

[mustangman]

I purchased an M-40 Shield. At the range I was using low pressure target loads and on the seventh shot a catastrophic failure of the brass occurred. I tried a couple of additional shots and it occurred again on the tenth shot. Attached photos show the unusual sidewall failure. The primers appeared normal so I discount the overloaded round argument. I sent the weapon back to S&W, received the exact form letter. I fought with them a couple of weeks, so they dropped the price of a replacement by $100. I still wouldn't take it and made them send the weapon back. I'm suspect a future recall, but only time shall tell. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy another S&W again.

Is this a recent occurrence, or a rehash of your only other post from back in Feb.? If it is recent, how about some details on the ammo used. If its the same old, same old, has S&W had it the whole time? Back then it was once fired brass, what where you using this time? If it wasn't new ammo, why should S&W do more than they did? Inquiring minds want to know.


http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/359964-40-shield-ammo-failure.html

 

[AR-Getsome]

I purchased an M-40 Shield. At the range I was using low pressure target loads and on the seventh shot a catastrophic failure of the brass occurred. I tried a couple of additional shots and it occurred again on the tenth shot. Attached photos show the unusual sidewall failure. The primers appeared normal so I discount the overloaded round argument. I sent the weapon back to S&W, received the exact form letter. I fought with them a couple of weeks, so they dropped the price of a replacement by $100. I still wouldn't take it and made them send the weapon back. I'm suspect a future recall, but only time shall tell. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy another S&W again.

I think he is trolling. Here is his quoted last post. From FEB.

"I'm just back from range. Test fired brand new S&W Shield in .40 S&W. Out of 15 rounds had 2 explosive failures of brass base where extractor contacted brass. Impressive to see but that's what glasses are for. I'm first to admit the ammo was bvac, so once fired brass. I've fired thousands of rounds bvac with no issues. Low power plunking rounds. No indication of hot rounds. Very deep firing pin punch and no bulging and fired brass fell in about 12 inch circle. I didn't have nerve to try Critical Duty which is my carry ammo. Could be ammo but my other S&W. Kimber and Sigs have no problem with this stuff. Anyone hear of this happening with the .40 S&W Shield? "

 

[Com 45acp]

^ my thoughts exactly!

 

[Practical]

I purchased an M-40 Shield. At the range I was using low pressure target loads and on the seventh shot a catastrophic failure of the brass occurred. I tried a couple of additional shots and it occurred again on the tenth shot. Attached photos show the unusual sidewall failure. The primers appeared normal so I discount the overloaded round argument. I sent the weapon back to S&W, received the exact form letter. I fought with them a couple of weeks, so they dropped the price of a replacement by $100. I still wouldn't take it and made them send the weapon back. I'm suspect a future recall, but only time shall tell. One thing is for sure, I'll never buy another S&W again.

You are using LOW PRESSURE TARGE LOADS?

Are they reloads or factory ammunition like Winchester bulk or are they some company's remanufactured ammo?

If reloads of any kind you have WEAK brass and a loose chamber maybe.

If your chamber if 'loose' like a glock 40 maybe your have a complaint against S&W.

Personally your ammo brass looks like reloads.

 

[spanz1]

wow I was going to buy a .40 shield, but after reading about expanding brass due to unsupported barrel, this recall about discharge after dropping, and finally this .40 shield blowing up using factory ammo....I am very seriously considering to never buy a S&W. is it true that the factory did not send you a free replacement after their gun blew up in your hand??? How the heck can they justify that?

Do they realize that people like me read these forums, and base all future buying decisions on cases like these???

 

[spanz1]

180 grain doesn't make a round +P. It's just a heavier bullet

I don't know why you couldn't fire a 180 grain from a shield. I put a 100 rounds of federal American eagle through my shield.

S&W doesn't say you can't or shouldn't shoot 180 grain ammo from their guns. They advise against +P though.

Lets review the kabooms.
135 gr labeled as +P.. but they claim its with in saami specs.? Yea that sounds reputable..
Unknown weight Corbin old ammo
Unknown weight federal critical 40 old ammo
Unknown weight reloaded federal old ammo
180 gr web from a person who posted twice and was never heard from again. Maybe died from his injuries?

We know of 5 possible kabooms out of how many shield 40s sold? I'm willing to bet you have a 1000 shield 40 owners here on this forum. 5 out of 1000 is like 1/2 of 1%..of all guns going kaboom.

Buy a set of micrometers and measure your ammo before shooting if you are really concerned. If you have any that are shorter than the rest consider not firing it out of your shield.

I have estimated 14,000 reds of .40 fired in 3 years and haven't had a kaboom yet. I am knocking on wood as I type though.

what about the pictures I have seen online of expanded brass? I have been shooting 40 in an HK since the earth cooled and never saw a 40 brass expand like that, thousands of rounds later.

 

[andyo5]

An unacceptable response from S&W

Their answer to you is unacceptable, in my mind. They told you it was not the fault of the product. And how did they determine this? To what/whom do they attribute the failure? Obviously somebody or something is at fault, unless their gun is designed to explode like that.
I would certainly not buy another Shield from them no matter how well priced it was, unless they explained to me what had gone wrong with the first gun. You have no reason to expect that the new one would not do the same thing that your first one did.

 

[navybrat62]

new shield 40 kaboom

ok my new shield decided to blow and burn my hand and shot the mag out

anyone know if they are going to fix these guns?

 

[RobzGuns]

ok my new shield decided to blow and burn my hand and shot the mag out
anyone know if they are going to fix these guns?

Give 'em a call.
You'll need to give THEM a bit more info than what you gave US though.
How old is the gun?
What Brand ammo?
What grain slug?
Standard Load? "+P"? "+P+"?
New? Reload?
Got any Pics? Highlight the damage points. Pics of the ammo helps too.

 

[TTSH]

ok my new shield decided to blow and burn my hand and shot the mag out

anyone know if they are going to fix these guns?

Sorry to hear that. Might be best to start a new thread. Just a thought.

 

[Jakpro]

Cut your losses and throw it in the trash. Smith and Wesson will not do anything. They will blame it on the ammunition, again.

 

[hardluk1]

I use underwood as my carry ammo . Not in a shield but in a 4" kahr tp40. Fired round push thru a bulge buster like a new stock starline brass does. No bugle to mess with. One of the biggest problems with hotter ammo in most pistols is to be sure you have a chamber that controls the brass Not like glocks 40 cal pistols and maybe the shield and to have enough recoil spring tension to keep it locked up long enough to function. Many handguns that come in 40 were designed around the 357 sig and the pressure level of that cartridges , Saami of 40.000psi . But some have recoils spring that are underpowered. I was told by underwood guys twice that they push the saami boundrys but don't exceed them . Only do to modern powders and working to a max load can they get these higher velocity's. So much of the factory ammo made today has been detuned to make then "safer" ?? I shoot underwoods 155gr speer hp and it does meet advertised velocity at 1302fps 10 shot average. It well not cycle in a buddy's smaller cw40 kahr . It would not make a clean slide cycle but would over run the mag spring or recoil spring but it was fast there too at 1292fps for the few rounds tried. .

I like our M&P's , a compact and a 4.25" version, but can tell you there not designed to stay locked up long enough and with hotter ammo you really loose out on velocity. I get higher velocity with underwoods 9mm 124gr +P out of my 3" cm9 kahr than ether compact or 4.25 barreled m&p. I'm going to try to bump up recoil spring LB.s

If you want a tighter stronger lite weight single stack?? Buy a different brand .

 

[SpinyNorman]

Let us know if it "decides" to bake you a nice batch of cookies in apology.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Many handguns that come in 40 were designed around the 357 sig and the pressure level of that cartridges , Saami of 40.000psi . /QUOTE]

I may be a little fuzzy on the dates here, but didn't the .40 S&W development predate the .357 SIG by about five years?

 

[Rastoff]

I may be a little fuzzy on the dates here, but didn't the .40 S&W development predate the .357 SIG by about five years?

You're close.

The .40 S&W cartridge debuted January 17, 1990.
The .357SIG cartridge was designed and first sold in 1994.


That doesn't mean that more recent firearms aren't built around the 40Kpsi spec.

 

[Muss Muggins]

You're close.

The .40 S&W cartridge debuted January 17, 1990.
The .357SIG cartridge was designed and first sold in 1994.




That doesn't mean that more recent firearms aren't built around the 40Kpsi spec.

Well, the most popular are the Sig 229 and the Glock 31, both designed specifically for the .357 SIG (we can argue the 229 a little, but it was designed first for the .357 SIG). I would say that there are very few handguns that come in .40 that were originally designed around the .357 SIG.

 

[1hatchet]

I personally have had a Glock G-22 in .40 S&W go KaBoom using Winchester White Box ammo.

Lesson learned I will not own or fire another .40 S&W firearm from any manufacturer.

Be SAFE.

End of story.