Safe and sane loads for Model 29 longevity.

[alwslate]

If you stick to the maximum loads in the manuals for 240 gr. bullets, cast or jacketed, your hand and wrist will fall apart long before the gun does.

Sadly this just hasn't been true. The problems with the
29-2s and earlier versions have been well documented years
ago. The early versions of the model 29 were prone to some
serious problems when fed a steady diet of full power loads.
That's what led to the changes S&W made to the 29 and
other models know as the endurance package. Several
changes were made starting with the 29-4 I believe and one
change is easy to see on the later models, the elongated
slots in the cyl for the locking bolt. This information is
readily available for those who care to look and most owners
of the 29-2 and earlier are aware of it.

 

[BruceM]

The most common problem the "endurance package" addressed was cylinder float. In essence, the cylinder stop would suck back down into the frame during recoil unlocking the cylinder and allowing it to turn backwards. The problem is currently cured by installing an extra strength stop spring on pre-endurance package three screw guns. In my recollection, it wasn't an issue on early 4 or 5 screw guns.

To me, an issue with cylinder float does not equate to a worn out, used up gun. The most common issues with the pre-ep guns other than cylinder float are endshake and does not carry up. These are easily resolved, sort of like doing brakes on a car and do not constitute major problems in my mind.

Bruce

 

[Snapping Twig]

I've been shooting the 429244 (265g from WW) over 22g W296/H110 forever. Love that load! Haven't chrono'd it, but I expect it's somewhere @ 1200fps which IIRC is right where Uncle Elmer wanted the 44 mag to be.

For lightweight stuff, I use a 429421 (250g from WW) over 7g W231/HP38 in a magnum case for @ 900fps without the carbon ring Spl brass would make.

Face it, anywhere from 900 ~ 1200fps is a freight train with a 250g bullet. Good for anything you want to use it for.

Cast is easy on the barrel and gives you extra velocity over jacketed bullets for the same amount of powder.

Can't beat that.

 

[alwslate]

The most common problem the "endurance package" addressed was cylinder float. In essence, the cylinder stop would suck back down into the frame during recoil unlocking the cylinder and allowing it to turn backwards. The problem is currently cured by installing an extra strength stop spring on pre-endurance package three screw guns. In my recollection, it wasn't an issue on early 4 or 5 screw guns.

To me, an issue with cylinder float does not equate to a worn out, used up gun. The most common issues with the pre-ep guns other than cylinder float are endshake and does not carry up. These are easily resolved, sort of like doing brakes on a car and do not constitute major problems in my mind.

Bruce

There's more to the endurance package than curing cyl float
but I do not know exactly what all the changes are. I know
the yoke was strengthened and the frame studs were beefed
up and the cyl retaining screw design was changed. But
we have lots of folks on the forum here who are smarter
than company engineers and powder manufacturing
ballisticians so if you want to pound your early mod 29s
with a steady diet of full power loads have at it. I'm going
to pamper mine a bit.

 

[Forrest r]

I've shot my fare share of hot loads in the s&w 29's, owned a 8 3/8", 4", 6" versions of the 29-2 in the past.

Used a lyman 429421 4-cavity mold and had a pile of all the free lead I could use.

Would go to the Medina gunshow and buy a case at a time of wc820 pulldown powder from Pat's reloading. 1 case ='s 4-8# jugs or 32# of mag powder (used h110, 2400, aa#9 data depending on the lot/case price was around $200 out the door).

Needless to say, I put a couple hot loads down the tube in those 29's over the years.

But I've also been a huge fan of the 44spl along with the 38spl and 357. Owned and still own firearms chambered in 44spl along with 44mag. Having said that, I have no problem making plinking loads that are highly accurate in 44mag cases that use 200gr to 250gr bullets and run in the 900fps range from a 6" bbl'd 629. Found 13 loads testing 7 different bullets using 5 different powders that will easily make major but yet are a mild plinking load that will hold the x-ring on a nra 25yd target. Any one of those loads would give you a life time of quality range time.



There's allot of power in a heavy bullet traveling at high speeds. Was playing around making some home made swaged/jacketed bullets for the 44mag. Talk about over penetration, had to keep slowing the bullets down along with going from a fn design to a huge hp that acts like a parachute slowing the bullet down as it opens/penetrates.

This is what I ended up with, a 265gr bullet with a huge hp



The test target setup @ 25yds along with the chronograph reading for those 6 shots.



I put that test target on a bundle of tightly wrapped newspaper that was soaked for 24 hours in a water bath. Set everything out @ the 25yd line and shot, the bullets started showing up at the 9" mark in the wet papers.



Anyway, bullet selection king compared to warp speed blasting ammo when it comes to the 44mag. 3 different cast bullets, the penta point (left) is an excellent hp in the 800/900fps range, the large round hp (center) 1000/1200fps and the small round hp (right) 1200/1400fps.




As others have already stated, keep your plinking loads in the 900fps range and the heavier loads in the 1200fps range and your 29-2 will last a life time. Go out and buy #32 of mag powder and go play on the silhouette field you'll find out real quick how loose that 29 will get. I did

Just another opinion.

 

[alwslate]

Silhouette shooting was a popular fad in this area back in the late 60s
to early 70s or so then kinda died out like most fads tend to do. The
steel silhouettes required a solid hit to knock down so handloaders
used pretty heavy loads. That's when the durability shortcomings of
the model 29 compared to the Rugers became well known. I remember
reading something Elmer Keith wrote about the mod 29 44 magnum.
Ol Elmer was well known for his hot handloading experiences and his
big game hunting with the mod 29. But what I read surprised me
somewhat. He said to keep about 90% of your shooting with light
target level loads and reserve the heavy loads for serious work. If it
had not been for the popularity of silhouette shooting and if most
owners of 29s had followed his advise the old 29s would have
probably held up just fine.

 

[BruceM]

Silhouette shooting was a popular fad in this area back in the late 60s
to early 70s or so then kinda died out like most fads tend to do. The
steel silhouettes required a solid hit to knock down so handloaders
used pretty heavy loads. That's when the durability shortcomings of
the model 29 compared to the Rugers became well known.

Something that is "commonly known" is that silhouette shooters had a great proclivity for trying to stretch the performance envelope in their efforts to solidly knock down the rams (overload past SAAMI specs). This, not coincidentally, is when the "durability shortcomings" of the M29 became readily apparent.

It is true that there were more revisions to the N-frame action contained in the EP than just dealing with cylinder float but they addressed, for the most part, the three issues I mentioned previously. Generally, thousands of rounds of full power ammo need to be expended before what I consider standard maintenance needs to be done. That said, with the range of Smith & Wesson's QC especially during the BP era, it wasn't all that unusual for there to be individual guns which would not carry up on one or two chambers after a relatively few rounds fired. This however wasn't a design or durability issue but rather one of QC. The change in the yoke's design included with the EP changes was Smith's effort to deal with endshake problems.

Bruce

 

[Eagle223usa]

I'd like to share a data point for consideration which might help make a determination. Use a given bullet, powder, COAL and primer. Start somewhere towards the bottom and work up small lots in maybe .3 gr increments and plot the velocities you see.

Example: I did this with Mt. Baldy's 250 gr Keith bullet, 2400 and WLP. Started at around 17 gr and worked up to 21.5 gr. A widely discussed load for this combo is 22 gr.

This is what I found. Each increment produced a velocity gain which made sense. After 19 gr though the slope of the velocity curve started leveling out. Continuing on to 21.5 gr the return for extra powder was not there though I assumed the recoil should reflect more velocity. The recoil and noise seemed to go up significantly. I determined 19 gr is perfect for my gun and has killed Blacktail deer, grouse and an elk ever since.

Though I beleive a 629-4 can take it, I like not wondering how much I'm pounding on my gun knowing I'm not maxed out. Saves in component costs too.

This 19 gr 2400, 1.71 COAL, WLP load averages 1,240 in the 629 and 1,005 in a 3" 29.

This is my favorite load, 19 gr. Hercules 2400 with a 429244 Lyman cast of COWW +10% tin for a good fill out. It runs 1180 in my 5 1/2 inch SBH. That is way over what the Lyman book says it should run. I chronoed it in the 29 but don't have access to the numbers right now. It wasn't surprising or alarming or I would remember it. The accuracy in the 29 wasn't great with this load so I will add some linotype to the next batch that I cast. I'm gonna head out to the garage and see if I can find my notes, it has warmed up to 16 degrees!

 

[Eagle223usa]

If you stick to the maximum loads in the manuals for 240 gr. bullets, cast or jacketed, your hand and wrist will fall apart long before the gun does.

Brother, I am no where near max in my Lyman book, I bought a chrony 20 years ago and have found the books are a bit inconsistent. I am at Lymans #49 top velocity that they give at 22+grs of 2400 with only 19grs of powder. I believe measured velocity is a way to estimate pressure, If I am getting 1180 with 19 grs of powder I am probably at the top of the pressure curve for that load.
My cast Krag handloads do the same, I'm at max velocity 3+ grs. under max. Same book. I am so glad I have a chrony or I wouldn't have caught that.

In kind of the same vein, my .45 Colt handloads are at max powder weight according to the Lyman book and all run 100 to 150 fps slower! 730 fps. to 750 range out of a 5 1/2 Colt. I did chrono factory Remington also and it was slow too. Must be the revolver.
Thanks.

 

[DWalt]

The one and only load I ever use in my .44s Magnums is a 200 grain cast bullet over 7 grains of Bullseye. That load will be more than enough for accurate shooting at anything I will ever shoot at. Those who love muzzle blast and recoil may find that hard to believe. I do not love muzzle blast and recoil.

 

[arjay]

I shot an awful lot of 22 gr of 2400 with jacketed bullet loads out of my super Blackhawk back in the day.By the time I was much older and could afford a S&W,I was happy with 10 gr of unique pushing a lswc [emoji1]

 

[KnotRight]

Reading through this thread, I am see members saying go to a lighter bullet if I am reading it right. My question and not wanting to derail the thread, this same thing was posted on a forum about a S&W 66 or 19 burning the top strap with lighter weight bullets. If I remember right, it was the jump between the cylinder and the barrel. Why would that not hold true with the 29/629?

 

[amazingflapjack]

A 240 gr LSWC over 10-12 gr of Unique for me.

 

[Forrest r]

Reading through this thread, I am see members saying go to a lighter bullet if I am reading it right. My question and not wanting to derail the thread, this same thing was posted on a forum about a S&W 66 or 19 burning the top strap with lighter weight bullets. If I remember right, it was the jump between the cylinder and the barrel. Why would that not hold true with the 29/629?

Good question!!!
I can only speak for myself. I use allot of light bullets in the 44cal's, but they are lead not jacketed bullets. Lead bullets are more forgiving and yes, they are longer than their jacketed counterparts. I use light bullets and light loads in the 44's for plinking. When I shoot flies @ 25yds the fly can't tell the difference between a 200gr wc doing 900fps and a 310gr fn doing 1,150fps.

Actually it has allot to do with the powders/amount of powder being used in those 357 cases pushing that 125gr bullet. I showed a bunch of test loads/targets in an earlier post. 4 of those loads were 6.0gr to .6.5gr of clays pushing 200gr to 220gr bullets. Hot loads in the 357's would be 5.3gr of clays pushing a 125gr bullet.

I think a fare/equal comparison would be full house loads of:
125gr 357's vs 180gr 44mags
(actually a 44 is 20% larger than the 357 so it should be 125gr vs 150gr)

Anyway, just picked up a couple more molds to be able to cast some "plinking" bullets for the 44's.



Left: a custom mold 175gr wc
Right: a lee 160gr wc
Bottom: One of my favorite plinking bullets for the 357. It a 110gr wc cast from a h&g #41 mold.

That #41 gives me plinking loads like these.


Note the fliers, that's from using 20 year old beat to death brass.

 

[BUFF]

I shot handgun silhouette back 1975-1978. I mostly shot an 8-3/8 inch M-29-2 but sometimes a 6-1/2 incher or a 10 inch Contender. I used Winchester's 240 grain JHP factory loaded cartridge as my velocity benchmark. 21.0 grains of Hercules 2400 with a WW/linotype mix Lyman 429421 or 20.5 of same with a Speer 240 grain JHP was very close out of the two S&W's. W-W cases, WLP primers. Velocity ran about 1,250 out of the 6-1/2 incher, actually a bit less from the 8-3/8 incher. Never chrono'ed the Contender.

I had probably 2,500 rounds through the longer gun when I traded it off, and while it seemed looser, it wasn't very tightly fitted when new. I had maybe 1,500 full-power loads through the 6-1/2 incher, and it was just smoother when I sold it to buy a then-new Model 629. Big mistake, the 629 wasn't as good as the 29-2. Neither of the 29-2's were out-of-time, let alone worn out.

The shooters I shot with used hotter-than-factory ammo in their .44 Magnums, be they S&W or Ruger SBH, for extra smack on the turkeys and rams. You had to knock them down, not just hit them. The extra hot loaders were the ones who claimed their S&W's "shot loose" but I never saw a damaged one.

I always figured that if you needed more power than factory-loaded .44 Magnum gave you, you need a bigger gun, not more powder.

I like 2400, still have a few pounds of Hercules brand left. I like 296, too, but don't shoot magnums much any more.

 

[yfdcap]

The most common problem the "endurance package" addressed was cylinder float. In essence, the cylinder stop would suck back down into the frame during recoil unlocking the cylinder and allowing it to turn backwards. The problem is currently cured by installing an extra strength stop spring on pre-endurance package three screw guns. In my recollection, it wasn't an issue on early 4 or 5 screw guns.

To me, an issue with cylinder float does not equate to a worn out, used up gun. The most common issues with the pre-ep guns other than cylinder float are endshake and does not carry up. These are easily resolved, sort of like doing brakes on a car and do not constitute major problems in my mind.

Bruce

I currently own ten Mod 29's, -2 or older. Not sure how many in the past. I still shoot them all. Even the 5 screws (not with heavy loads though). I have found the above statement to be true for me. While I no longer enjoy pounding max loads out of them, I sure used to back in the day. Was a big fan of the 240 SWC over 21-22 grains of 2400 load. I have had to adjust endshake a few times. Heavier strength stop spring on some of the late models. A few other small parts here and there. I considered that stuff maintenance. It did seem the older the gun the more reliable though. I did see QC stuff more from 70's on up guns. Still owned and enjoyed them though. I say shoot what you want through that old 29 (within reason) and enjoy it. Life is to short. Try and wear it out. Bet you don't.

 

[jimbo728]

I have it down to 7gr 231 240gr LSWC for plinking. Runs 850fps.
And 17gr 2400 240 gr XTP @ 1157 fps for more punch.
It`s plenty for me and my 6.5 629-3 Classic loves them both.
Jim

 

[DWalt]

The most common problem the "endurance package" addressed was cylinder float. In essence, the cylinder stop would suck back down into the frame during recoil unlocking the cylinder and allowing it to turn backwards. The problem is currently cured by installing an extra strength stop spring on pre-endurance package three screw guns. In my recollection, it wasn't an issue on early 4 or 5 screw guns.

To me, an issue with cylinder float does not equate to a worn out, used up gun. The most common issues with the pre-ep guns other than cylinder float are endshake and does not carry up. These are easily resolved, sort of like doing brakes on a car and do not constitute major problems in my mind.

Bruce

I have a 29-3, and it didn't take too long after I bought it back around 1990 for me to have this reversing problem with full .44 Mag loads. I put in a stronger cylinder stop spring. It helped a little, but did not solve the reversing problem. It suddenly occurred to me that there was absolutely no reason for continuing to use a diet of hell-for-leather .44 loads just because I could, so I dropped back to milder loads. I am much happier to have less noise and recoil, and the 29-3 always works like it is supposed to, never had another reversing cylinder incident.

 

[yfdcap]

I have a 29-3, and it didn't take too long after I bought it back around 1990 for me to have this reversing problem with full .44 Mag loads. I put in a stronger cylinder stop spring. It helped a little, but did not solve the reversing problem. It suddenly occurred to me that there was absolutely no reason for continuing to use a diet of hell-for-leather .44 loads just because I could, so I dropped back to milder loads. I am much happier to have less noise and recoil, and the 29-3 always works like it is supposed to, never had another reversing cylinder incident.

Not sure why but the couple -3's I have had have been the worst at this. Same bullets in my old pre-29's would not do it but -3 did. QC maybe?