Safe REVOLVER Hand Grasp

[DrDoctor]

I recently saw another site wherein a self-proclaimed "expert" recommended holding a revolver the same as one would a semi-auto (ie: "thumbs forward"), given the user's primary weapon's a semi-auto, so as not to become confused in an emergent situation. Three of the prime directives I received from a GMCM while in the Navy were – 1) never point any weapon at anything you wouldn't destroy; 2) never put any of your personal anatomy in front of any weapon (see rule #1); and 3) never put any of your personal anatomy in front of the cylinder of any revolver (lest you not have that anatomical part after discharging said revolver). I guess this aforementioned self-proclaimed "expert" never heard of "traumatic amputations", as he "only gets a sooty finger". His opportunity awaits . . . Opinions/Comments???

 

[Bumpus13]

I recently saw another site wherein a self-proclaimed "expert" recommended holding a revolver the same as one would a semi-auto (ie: "thumbs forward"), given the user's primary weapon's a semi-auto, so as not to become confused in an emergent situation. Three of the prime directives I received from a GMCM while in the Navy were – 1) never point any weapon at anything you wouldn't destroy; 2) never put any of your personal anatomy in front of any weapon (see rule #1); and 3) never put any of your personal anatomy in front of the cylinder of any revolver (lest you not have that anatomical part after discharging said revolver). I guess this aforementioned self-proclaimed "expert" never heard of "traumatic amputations", as he "only gets a sooty finger". His opportunity awaits . . . Opinions/Comments???

Let us know when he loses his thumb.

 

[murphydog]

If you have relatively small hands (short thumbs) and hold them straight forward against the lower cylinder frame window, this technique may not cause any problems. But with longer thumbs, or being forgetful angling them upward (or with a Chiappa Rhino) - that will leave a mark.

Never tried this method with a revolver and probably won't.

 

[Paul105]

Let's see if this works. I have arthritic thumbs and hold the gun similar to the thumbs forward technique -- I don't have small hands and my support thumb is no where near the bbl/cyl gap. The gun is a 2 3/4" M69 .44 mag.

https://photos.imageevent.com/paul105/miscpublic/IMG_0782.MOV

 

[Univibe]

I hold my revolver the same way I hold my semi.

Right hand thumb under safety (or where the safety would be) and left hand thumb over RH thumb, locking it down.

Definitely lacks the hi-speed, lo-drag special ops look of having your thumbs pointing towards the target, but it provides a firmer grip and no chance of the thumb hitting the slide release lever secondary to recoil.

 

[upcountry]

I hold my revolvers that way. I soon found out how far forward the thumb should go.

 

[Grayfox]

When teaching a new person about revolvers, I always take a heavy paper target, roll it up, place it beside the barrel/cylinder gap and pull the trigger. Their eyes get real big and the point gets made.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly with "THOSE" pictures that are floating around somewhere on the internet.

 

[muddocktor]

When teaching a new person about revolvers, I always take a heavy paper target, roll it up, place it beside the barrel/cylinder gap and pull the trigger. Their eyes get real big and the point gets made.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly with "THOSE" pictures that are floating around somewhere on the internet.

All they have to do is look at the episode of Mythbusters where they experimented on this with a S&W 500 Mag. It wasn't purty, what that 500 did to their hand stand in.

 

[Protocall_Design]

You can get away with that on light .38 special target loads, or similar other calibers. If you shoot anything medium to hot like that, you will know about it after the first shot. If all parts are behind the front of the cylinder, you will be OK.

 

[reddog81]

You'd have to get your thumb pretty high and pretty far forward for it to be a problem. I couldn't find any natural or comfortable way to position my hand so that such an issue would ever be a problem on anything from a J frame to an X frame.

There's a big difference between thumbs forward with your thumb ending at the middle of the cylinder and thumbs forwards and your thumb extends over the barrel cylinder gap.

 

[Paul105]

Don't know if you can see the video clip posted above, so I isolated this picture from the video -- if you look closely at the far left edge, you can see the muzzle flash.

This grip evolved over time as my thumbs became more arthritic. Not suggesting this grip is for everyone, but I've shot close to 100,000 rnds of .44 mag, .45 Colt Ruger only, .475 Linebaugh and several other big bore revolvers over the last 10 yrs or so and have never had a problem. \

Here's a picture of one of my friends shooting the same gun -- notice that his grip is totally different. He happens to be one of the best shots I have ever seen.

Use the grip that works best for you.

FWIW,

Paul

Paul

 

[JimCunn]

I notice in both of those photos, that the left index finger extends forward to the cylinder gap.
Is that a potential problem?

 

[delcrossv]

As a matter of policy, I don't have anything in line with the cylinder gap. (Among other things,I have a 460V and a 500).
I teach my kids the same. I could see how one could get away with a low placed finger in front of the trigger guard with a 38, but I'd never try it with an X frame. Best practice IMO, is just don't do it.
Even with everything behind, If I shoot enough rounds, I get "black finger" anyway.

 

[Nightowl]

I have seen Julie Golob demonstrate the thumbs forward grip on a small frame revolver. I tried it for awhile, on an N frame and I have smaller hands. It was hard to get used to after 50 years of a thumb over thumb grip. I began to shoot a lot of low right shots after awhile and never could figure out why, so went back to my standard grip. I have seen people with very small hands try to shoot thumb over, and I think thumbs forward might work better for them.
My left thumb never came near the the b/c gap.

 

[jcelect]

Thumbs?

Hey Nightowl, one explanation! With the thumbs crossed behind the revolver, you are actually holding the gun with the left hand(assuming a right handed shooter) and the right hand is some what relaxed. When you use the thumbs forward hold, usually the left hand looses contact with the gun under recoil(assuming large calibers). This lose of holding power causes you to grip the gun with the right hand harder pulling the muzzle downward. This can be seen in the above video at the very end! I also have experienced this when trying to use the "auto hold"! I solved the problem! Don't shoot those bottom feeding auto jammers!
jcelect

 

[Erich]

My 6'3" friend at the range yesterday, shooting my 640-1:

 

[DrDoctor]

This might get me in poor standing with some of you, but I tho't I'd mention my own grasp – it's called the "tea-cup grasp" by an ex-cop instructor. My hands are "sizable" (not gorilla-sized, but not dainty, either), and wrapping one hand around the other while holding a 460V (3¾ pounds) fitted with its black-walnut custom grip ( bigger than the original rubber grip, but not by much . . .), just wasn't comfortable. So, the gun instructor showed it to me, and it works. I grip the gun with my right hand, put it into my left one, grab my right one with my left one, and I've got a good solid hold of the "cannon". It's probably abit unorthodox, but it does work. Regards to all . . .

 

[flagman1776]

Right hand thumb under safety (or where the safety would be) and left hand thumb over RH thumb, locking it down.

What he said!

 

[ABPOS]

Jerry Miculek uses thumbs forward on N frames. Honestly I don't see how he does it as it's been said he's got very big hands.

I can never get used to thumbs forward on any gun. Semi or auto. I find locking the left thumb on top of a lower right thumb the most intuitive for me. Semi or Revolver. Plus there's the added bonus of not having it be in the way of the hot gases.

I would think some peoples hands might slip to where the tip of the thumb could get too close. Like someone said, probably isn't a big issue with .38's but could be a problem for hot magnum loads?

I don't know. I don't want to find out. LOL.

eta: I can't find where he showed it. He's showing locking thumbs on this vid and explains the dangers. I could've swore I seen him do high thumbs specifically on an N frame with rubber grips that cover the backstrap. But maybe I'm wrong.....

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEHNZFTfSD8"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEHNZFTfSD8[/ame]

 

[Old cop]

Having XLG hands w/long thin fingers/thumbs I learned to shoot revolvers w/my thumbs crossed behind the backstrap. It's especially effective to control recoil w/a J frame.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Handguns have their origin as ONE-HAND weapons. I am not against improvements, know the advantages of using two hands, and avail myself of them at every opportunity. Nevertheless, nobody owes me any guarantees except history, and probably not that. Anyone who abandons tradition and takes it upon himself to use two hands to hold a handgun thereby takes it upon himself to figure out how to do so safely. The two most obvious dangers are flame-cutting of the support hand with a revolver, and thumb-cutting of the support hand with the slide of a slabside pistol. I am sure that others will devise new means of self-injury. Two of those might be to use a safe two-hand revolver grip on a slabsise pistol, and vice-versa.

Before you do this, be sure to figure out who else's fault it is.

 

[photoman]

JM...

YouTube

 

[ContinentalOp]

I'm not at all comfortable having my thumb extend past the front of the cylinder. Even if you work out a grip where your support-hand thumb stays behind the cylinder gap, under stress you could place it further forward than intended. For revolvers, I still think thumb-over-thumb is the best grip for most people. Obviously, if you have a method that consistently works well for you that's not thumb-over-thumb, and you're not endangering yourself, that's fine.

Same with semi-autos. If you want to maintain consistency, which, in my opinion, is a good thing, there's nothing wrong with using the same thumb-over-thumb grip with semi-autos.

Having said that, I do use different grips with revolvers vs. semi-autos. I think there are some pretty good biomechanical reasons for using a thumbs forward grip with semi-autos. In my experience, my front sight seems to track more consistently when firing quickly. But I don't think it's the only way to grip a semi-auto.

I use thumb-over-thumb with revolvers. I think part of the reason this works for me is because revolvers have smaller grips than semi-autos (well, my semi-autos...they're both double-stacks). I have small-medium size hands so I can get more of my fingers wrapped around a compact revolver stock than a double-stack grip frame. With semi-autos, that extra contact you get with your support-hand on the grip frame using thumbs forward helps with shooting quickly.

One last thought...I, too, had some concerns regarding using different grips for different gun types, but after doing quite a bit of experimentation I found that I didn't have an issue using gun-specific grips. Granted, I've never had to do it with someone trying to kill me, but I think with enough practice, even if it's primarily dry-fire practice, "muscle memory" will become programmed enough to do what needs to be done.

But as I previously mentioned, there's nothing wrong with using the same thumb-over-thumb grip for both revolvers and semi-autos.

 

[DrDoctor]

UPDATE –

I mentioned my own gun (revolver) grasp that I was heretofore using – called the "tea-cup" grasp shown to me by an ex-cop instructor (refer to comment #17 herein), where I grip the gun with my right hand, place it into my left one, grab my right one with my left one. While probably unorthodox, it was comfortable.

Now the update – one of the state patrolmen in this area was talking to me about signage on our property (another topic of discussion), and he asked me how I liked my gun selections. When I told him what we'd purchased, he asked if he could see the 460V. So, I did. We talked about it in some detail – he liked my rationale for selecting it, and the Taurus Judge (we wanted to stay with S&W, but the gun-shop didn't have a Governor, so we went with "option B").

When we got to the topic of holding the 460V, and the Judge, he wasn't all that impressed. He stated that the recoil could actually lift the hand holding the gun (the right one) out of the supporting hand, and ruin not only that shot, but subsequent shots, as well.

His demonstrated grasp – holding the gun with the right hand, wrap the thumb and the middle finger of the left hand around my right wrist, with the index finger of the left hand extending along the outer edge of my right hand, ending approximately at the knuckle of the right hand, the ring finger, and the little finger, of the left hand wrap around the right wrist. It's really quite comfortable, and was surprisingly easy to adapt to. Further, it DOES make the overall grasp of the gun feel more solid/rigid, and thus does provide increased confidence.

I fired a friend's .357 revolver with a 4" barrel (didn't pay attention to the type of ammunition he was using, as I don't own a .357 revolver, so it wasn't important to me . . .), and I did find the new grasp a significant improvement over the "tea-cup" grasp.

He also told me of a gun-shop/gun-range not too far from us owned by a retired "federal agent" of an agency that I shouldn't inquire about (hmmmmm . . .). OK . . . To continue – this gun-shop/gun-range owner approved of the new grasp for both guns, but especially for the 460V. He also said it would be better for my wife to use on her .38 Lady Smith. She was using the "tea-cup" grasp, but feels that this new grasp provides greater stability for her much-weaker left wrist (resultant to an accident, and botched surgery – another tale for a different audience . . .).

Just goes to prove that evolution is a constant, even in something as simple as how to hold a gun. So, onward, and upward!!! Warmest regards to all . . . Thx.

PS – both the patrolman, and the owner of the gun-shop/gun-range, also hated the idea of the "thumbs-forward" grasp on a revolver. They did say that such a grasp was potentially beneficial to some of my colleagues still in medical practice. I'll just let that comment speak for itself . . . Thx.

 

[Breakaway500]

The more you practice live fire..the more you find what works best for you.
Ive seen people struggle with gun holds to the point of frustration. I then tell them to relax..and hold it comfortably but with determination.The whole move toward lighter and smaller handguns,especially in Magnum cartridges, has really made a lot of new shooters gun shy to the point of flinching with expected poor down range results.

One hit with a 38 is better than 6 misses in 357...

 

[grinner]

I can never get used to thumbs forward on any gun. Semi or auto. I find locking the left thumb on top of a lower right thumb the most intuitive for me. Semi or Revolver. Plus there's the added bonus of not having it be in the way of the hot gases.

Same here. That's how I learned eons ago, and i find I have better accuracy AND control of recoil — which is the opposite of what most who advocate the thumbs forward grip claim. I've tried the thumbs forward method, but when I get the palm of my left hand against the grip, my right fingers are pushed forward a little. This causes me to squeeze the grip with my right hand when I fire to maintain control, shifting the shots low and left.

When I use the older grip I prefer, I get a solid grip with the right hand on the entire grip - my fingers wrap halfway around the grip on the left side. I then cover it with the left hand, but don't get much contact between my left palm and the grip. Still, it helps squeeze in my right fingers and I shoot a lot better with this grip. The gun doesn't twist in my grip as I fire.

I don't think either grip is better than the other. Just use what works for you. Thee are obviously grips that are bad or dangerous, but no single "best" grip.

I always wondered if the people who can't seem to stop shooting low left would be better off abandoning the thumbs forward combat grip and going old school.

 

[RoyM52]

I use the grip pattern like that DrDr states above. I clamp the right wrist with the left hand. I don't lock the right thumb. Works well for single action revolvers. Allows the thumb to work the hammer without unlocking the grip. {maybe could be called a modified teacup}

Also works well with semi-auto's. Allows the right thumb to work the safety either on or off without any hindrance from the left hand. {left thumb}

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
I hold a Revolver and a semi-auto the same.
I NEVER put my thumb on the safety .
If you look , with a 1911, putting the thumb up causes the grip to open up.
This can cause the grip safety to back up and block the trigger.
As we can never tell what gun we might get a hold of at a giver time.
Having or teaching such a grip[thumbs up] is counter productive.

 

[amazingflapjack]

I guess many of us have seen the pics of the guy shooting the X frame like that-blowing the end of his thumb off.

 

[kthom]

I was taught to shoot revolvers with my left thumb over my right hand/thumb behind the hammer. My right thumb was curled down into my grip. I shot this way for MANY years and was so programmed to do so that when I had the opportunity to shoot my friends PPK semi auto, I took the same grip. I can show you the scar today where that slide came across my left thumb and sliced it open. I actually thought their had been a malfunction of some kind since the blood was flowing freely!

Since then, I have learned to pay attention to what style of handgun I'm shooting. These days, for the sake of consistency, I shoot both revolvers and semi autos (with no manual safety) with my right thumb curled down into my grip and my left thumb overlapping and gripping my right thumb at a slightly forward position. Nothing on either hand gets anywhere close to that cylinder gap! I have vivid memories of what it looks like when you fire a fully loaded .357 magnum with a digit out in the area of that cylinder gap. Thankfully, each time it's happened in my presence, it was not my digit that became the show and tell! I try to maintain as much consistency in my grip of any handgun, provided that there is not something that prevents it. And I tend not to regularly shoot any handgun that does not fit my hands in such a way as to prevent me from taking this grip. I'm surely not a great shooter, especially these days, but I did shoot competition for a good long while when those involved PPC target shooting. Yeah, that's been a long time ago! I also have evolved to shooting pretty much from an Isoceles stance for the reasons Miculek mentioned in his video. It just works better, I have better balance and shooting consistency, especially when there is more than one target in play.

My biggest challenge is that I shot for many years while pulling my head down toward where I held my revolver. Glasses and Trifocals has confounded that practice. To see my sights as well as possible, I have to hold my head up straighter to allow me to see through the middle distance focal of my glasses. That actually is a much better place for my head to be, but old habits die hard, and I still find myself having to raise my head once in a while. Old habits die hard, so try your best to learn good habits as much as is possible, and then practice them to death! Good shooting!